Where do YOU rate the Klitschkos?

[RubenSonny]

I don't really have a problem with most posters, regardless of their views. But when someone negs you for posting a simple fight video in a thread, then sends you an abusive PM and follows you around like an irritating child for the next month, it tends to leave a bad taste in your mouth. I'll give you one guess as to which winning individual I'm referring to.

That's not what happened, you claimed Frazier and Tua fought similarly and got called out on your bull**** and were non-respondent to the subject afterwards because you don't know what your talking about. You were further called out on your bull**** and proved to be a hypocrite.

[nomadman]

You do realize that poster is guilty of that?

Yes, I have seen it and I don't like it. I won't lie. I've seen it fly the other way too. Anyway, I don't want to get involved with this childish crap. I deleted the above post.

[fitefanSHO]

Until they retire, I don't rate them.

[RubenSonny]

Yes, I have seen it and I don't like it. I won't lie. I've seen it fly the other way too. Anyway, I don't want to get involved with this childish crap. I deleted the above post.

Then why post it at all, I was obviously going to respond.

[JAB5239]

Then why post it at all, I was obviously going to respond.

You guys are both quality posters and need not be fighting. Agree to disagree and let it go.

[nomadman]

You guys are both quality posters and need not be fighting. Agree to disagree and let it go.

I'm cool with that.

[StarshipTrooper]

There's been too much talk going around about fighters being "clinically obese" especially when it comes to Klitschko opponents. You are all WRONG. You should look up the definition of clinically obese, and apologise on these pages.

No top fighter these days or any other, except maybe Rid**** Bowe LATELY, who was a bit nuts and didn't care, or james Toney, who can handle it, would get into a ring for a millions dollar fight clinically obese. It has become the accepted wisdom for fighters to pile on some extra pounds to fight the Klitschkos so as to stand up better to their punches. But having 5-10 lbs more around the beltline against the Klitschkos is a far cry from being "clinically obese".

If you got a Firestone around your waist and moobies on your chest then you're obese. 99.9% of the Klit opponents fit the definition.

Poet

[StarshipTrooper]

You may be "smart Alecky" if you wish, but that's the general idea. The heavier guy absorbs punches better, and Although it's true that Johnson was not rippling with muscle, he never had been, he was always a bit blubbery, sometimes more sometimes less.

Bull**** :bull****9:

[StarshipTrooper]

Mr. Hohenzollern, who don't you go back to the History section or wherever you've been hibernating for a few years. You're still taking advantage of the ignorance of the average poster here. There is a HUGE difference between "user" and "abuser". YOU know that, THEY don't.

If you use you abuse. Period. End of story. No different then a dope head: If you take dope you're an abuser. Period. And btw, why don't you go back to your glory-hole since no one wants to watch a grown man rhetorically fellate two slow unathletic white dudes from Ukraine.

Poet

[cupocity303]

There is no context to saying "Frazier's only great win was against a past prime Ali", and you did not say it was his only great win against someone that fought like Wlad. You said it was his only great win. Saying you meant it in only one context now is you trying to cover up for saying something completely false.

Another knee-jerk reaction. If I didn't phrase it correctly for you to understand the first time, you should've understood my context in the post you just responded to. I believe I covered all the bases. MOVING ON.

Me detracting from Wlad's opponents when people overrate them means I give Wlad no credit all the time, yet you saying Frazier has one great win is only in context? Who are you trying to fool? You are denying you said things and trying to tell people to stop putting words in your mouth, while trying to put words in others' mouths. Hypocrite.

He said, she said. And round we go. See above comment.

In the first Frazier-Ali fight, Ali fought a lot like he did before the layoff, minus some of his former athleticism. Frazier wasn't exactly prime condition either, so it evens out. No one ever kept Frazier from getting inside, so how would Wlad? His jab isn't even close to Ali's, and Frazier got past that jab consistently. Wlad's jab is a weak, pawing jab until he gets into the groove of the fight, and I don't see how Wlad would keep Frazier outside. Even when Wlad clinched, Frazier would keep himself low enough to keep his arms free and able to hit Wlad to the body, which Wlad would not like.

Wlad's jab is a combination of pawing to keep an opponent at bay/establish a range, and jabbing hard if he sees you're coming in, or if you're just covering up in a turtle shell and being stationary. All while he barely uses his footwork, nothing like Ali at least, who in his prime expended lots of energy for his jab to work.

Once Ali lost his footwork, his jab wasn't as effective, and he resorted to doing the Rope-A-Dope more and more. Hence why it's not nearly as effective as Wlad's. He relied on footwork for it to be effective, Wlad relies on his Height. Ali lost his footwork, but Wlad sure isn't losing his height.

To me Wlad's Jab >> Ali's jab, as it is multidimensional in keeping fighters off him (pawing) and hitting hard in between all the pawing.

Wlad has also never proved that his stamina is improved from when it was last an issue, as he has done well to perfect his style to keep fights at his pace. Frazier would force that issue as well, as he was high activity.

This is theoretical and no way for me to argue against. I have always said that he had stamina issues due to him trying to fight like a lower weight, smaller fighter, by moving around too much and expending unnecessary energy, trying to do the same thing that he could do with HALF EFFORT.

And yes, we agree, he has since then closed the gap and perfected that style. Some call it boring, some call it him being scared. I call it the perfect, most effective style possible. He has been consistent, and he has consistently dominated a wide range of different styles. And I don't believe a 5'11, Low-Weight Smoking Joe would be any different, for reasons already mentioned.

Unlike you, I accept arguments as to Wlad winning and counter with why I think Frazier would win, rather than jump immediately to "history section won't listen to sound arguments because they are biased" bullcrap like you tried to pull in that other thread.

I'm glad to hear that.

I didn't make that part up, I have heard it from multiple people, that people who favor Klitschko in any scenario get trashed, if they retaliate get banned, and that's almost exactly what happened.

The Pink Font troll was the first to get on my case just for giving my answer to the Thread's question. And I retaliated. Take it as you will.