The Mistake EVERYBODY Makes Against Mayweather.

[daggum]

I expect - EXPECT - Floyd to lose.

1) He's 35 on his next birthday. Fairly ancient for a lightweight.
2) He has been inactive. Bad news for someone who relies on his sharpness
3) When you are on top, you are a target. And some kid has been studying Floyd his whole life. Think about it: we are just fans, and we have been discussing specific punches and tactics in X round of Y fight.
4) A bad night. Maybe a touch of cold. Feeling flu-ish. A sore shoulder. That rib injury that had that bone sticking out. Something.
5) Something fluke-y. Did you thing you would ever seen P-Will go nite-nite in the 2nd round?

yes. he had no defense and kept getting hit with haymakers in the first martinez fight.

[King of Sting]

Why can't Khan do that?

Khan has some of the components that could pull off that kind of gameplan. But, I think Maravilla is already doing it. And at the moment I think Maravilla's jab is better than Khan's and a southpaw too.

At the moment, I think Maravilla is the better man for that type of strategy.

[ssc73]

Gino,

Here's a novel that if you put it all together, you would almost be guaranteed a win over Floyd. And the only active fighter, maybe two fighters, that could fight the right type of fight for 12 rounds are 21 and 28 lbs bigger respectively.

I have been a member for awhile but haven't been on the boards a whole lot. But I like this because it wasn't the typical Mayweather threads you see. So I thought I'd throw in entirely too much info.....

You have good points. Floyd is in no way feather-fisted. Otherwise, Mosley, Oscar, Corrales, Castillo...all walk him down. I can't remember what round, I think 5 where Oscar had opened up and damn near got his head taken off! Oscar never really tried again after that because he would have go KTFO! Unless you want to count those wide-a** Rocky Balboa flurries to Floyd's elbows. How anyone gave Oscar more than 3 rounds?

Forgive me if someone has already said this. But you need a lot to go your way to beat him. It's gotta be a tall guy that can hurt him early and not get ko happy. Then throw constant jabs, not at his head but at his chest. And as you jab to his chest, you have to step to the left and push him to your right to avoid the pull counter.

It has to be someone like Castillo that has the iron chin to get in the pocket with Floyd, where he's even better than the outside, and concentrate on the body about 75% for the first six and outwork him. It will fool some judges. But then you still have to hope you've worn him down more than you are, need size, a jab and insane power in both hands. Because you have to make him want to fight the last half outside and STILL outwork him. They don't have to land, you can't be thinking KO, you have to be in the best shape of your life and hope for a little help with the judges.

I'm not saying he's unbeatable. But almost every style possible with the exception of Castillo has not even come close. And he's made adjustments on pressure fighters since Castillo too. So it's not a model anymore. It would have to be a very high energy, very active fighter who would not allow Mayweather to control space.

I just don't see that fighter anywhere near his weight class.

One fighter now I can see giving him problems because of how awkward? Martinez. But I still think Floyd figures that one out after 3-4 rounds.

One fight that the general public would find boring that I think would have been very interesting and VERY difficult for Floyd would be Winky in his prime. Tall, long southpaw jab with great defense himself. But I still think Floyd is too accurate and gets a dec.

You bascially need a phenom like prime Jones. But even then a perfect game plan like I first mentioned has to be followed. Floyd has slown down a bit. But I still think you need someone with that kind of natural ability, equal speed and in a disciplined fight plan.

Sorry everyone. It's not gonna be Pacquiao. Floyd controls distance to well and is very unpunished. The only hope for Pacquiao is if Floyd becomes like other great fighters at 35. Assuming they fight next May, Floyd will have just turned 35. The first time Whitaker was convincingly beaten by Trinidad? Just turned 35. Jones v Tarver 2? Just after Jones turned 35.

But before you get your hopes up, Floyd is more fundamentally sound that Jones and has better defense than he did. And despite being a great defensive fighter, Whitaker did take much more punishment over his career than Floyd and was not the offensive fighter Floyd was.

You need a cross between Leonard, Chavez and Duran to beat him. Matched speed on offense(Leonard), in his chest, hammering his body,arms, shoulder-whatever he gives you without being discouraged(Chavez), and the mental games Duran used to play-not shaving or showering for a couple weeks before his fights and then mauling his opponents, talkin' ****, overall solid offense and defense, and someone who could cut the ring off better than anyone and figure out the perfect plan and adjustments on the fly(Duran & Arcel were perfect at that).

Any of those guys separately would have a good chance of beating him. More Leonard than the others. But if you could combine the three?? Haha!

One other historical fighter that would have given him real problems that would have the style and built-in fight plan to beat him would be Marvin Hagler. Southpaw, iron chin, cut the ring, and an excellent boxer-puncher. And I'm talking the early eighties version, not the 85-87 version.

Julian Jackson's power wouldn't hurt either.

Thomas Hearns in the fight plan he used against Leonard the first time would probably beat him. He would have made it to 12 since there aren't 15 rounds, very tall, very good jab, and possibly the quickest and hardest RH ever. If he couldn't KO Floyd, I think he's the one with the best chance of winning based on height, length etc.

Don't get the wrong idea. I don't think Floyd is GOAT. But he is probably the most disciplined fighter in the ring I have ever seen. It would take the perfect fight plan and equal discipline to beat him.

[Vadrigar.]

I always see the question asked: How will you attack Mayweather? How will you break through his defense?

I suggest a paradigm shift.

How about going in with a plan to DEFEND against Mayweather? How will Floyd feel when he can't hit you at will? When he can't get his offense off? When he feels uncomfortable because he isn't piling up points?

Now, you may ask :"Floyd's offense is not all that. Why should I be worried about his offense?"

That's the person from OUTSIDE the ring saying that. Once you get into the ring, those punches don't feel great. The guy has 25 KO's. Corrales, Hatton. Gatti. Good fighters. He knocked down Marquez. His offense had Shane completely discouraged. He isn't quite the feather-fist you imagine. Guys aren't trying to walk through him.


If I was going to fight Floyd, I would be focused on a BALANCED fight plan. I would be concerned with my defense as much - if not more - than my offense.

Believe me: Floyd expects every opponent to attack him. Judah did. Hatton did. Oscar did. Shane did. Ortiz will.

Flip the script. Give Floyd something to think about. Make him have to come out of his shell OFFENSIVELY.

For discussion....thoughts?



[IMG]http://i135.***********.com/albums/q159/babyfacedassassin202/Pretty.gif[/IMG]


[IMG]http://i6.***********.com/albums/y247/philhaj/Mayweather-Judah01.gif[/IMG]

Basically you need to mimic him and stay one step ahead, but there isn't anyone in the game right now who can do that.

[Ray*]

This is why I think someone like Vernon Forrest with a jab to keep Mayweather outside Would beat him, people are too one dimensional when it comes to him, they think attack attack and when that isn't enough double the attack, stick him or a long jab, move around so he can't get off and let him come to you, it would make Mayweather think out of his comfort zone and his comfort zone is when people attack attack him.

[The_Sandman]

People think Floyd will just stand in the ring and wait all day for the other guy to throw the first punch. Trust me, counter punching isn't his only tool. If you don't engage, Floyd will. He isn't going to stand there all day. He will at least throw a jab to see how he reacts. If you don't throw a punch, he will make you throw a punch. If Floyd can't hit your head, he will jab to the body and make an opening for the head. They should learn to defend his counters. When Floyd has his hands down and leaning forward, throw a straight right. Watch, he will pull his head back and counter with his own straight. Anticipate that. When you're coming forward and he has his guards up, watch, he will throw the check hook when you come in. Anticipate that. I think the main thing is, even if the fighters know what to expect, their body is not quick enough to react. It's like your mind is telling you to do something, but your body is just not physically able to. I think you need a fighter who is just as fast as Floyd to react to these counters.

On top of that Floyd is very hard to read. There are a lot of times when he doesn't fight in rhythm. He will stand there with no movement whatsoever and he will shoot that lead right hand out of nowhere like a snake.

You also have to make sure your conditioning is very good. A lot of times, Floyd will depend on the later rounds like he did with Zab Judah. When you go in there with Floyd, you have expect to miss a lot of punches. Since he's an undefeated fighter, the opponent has to figure him out right then and there. And its going to take some trials and errors. So prepare for the worst and expect to miss a lot of punches. Missing punches will tire you out tremendously so don't make every punch an "intention to kill" type of punches. Remember, the point is to figure him out. You can kill him in the later rounds.

But I don't know. If an orthodox Mosley was able to land that right, then maybe the southpaw Ortiz will land the left and knock him down or out. But he better hope that its a knockout rather than a knockdown because if Mayweather gets back up, you can bet that he won't get hit with that again. So for Victor, since its too late for him to establish a good jab against Mayweather, I think his best bet is try to knock him out in the early rounds before Mayweather adjusts and adapts.

[bojangles1987]

If you go into a fight trying to out-defend Floyd Mayweather, you will lose. Simple as that. Mayweather's offense isn't complicated enough for a fighter to be worrying about it anywhere near as much as his defense. His offense comes from his defense.

[Gino Ros]

yes. he had no defense and kept getting hit with haymakers in the first martinez fight.

You lie!

Nobody - based on the first fight, and based on Paul's history - was picking an early KO.

If you can show me a post where you picked Martinez by early KO in the rematch, I will give you a million points.

[Gino Ros]

Gino,

Here's a novel that if you put it all together, you would almost be guaranteed a win over Floyd. And the only active fighter, maybe two fighters, that could fight the right type of fight for 12 rounds are 21 and 28 lbs bigger respectively.

I have been a member for awhile but haven't been on the boards a whole lot. But I like this because it wasn't the typical Mayweather threads you see. So I thought I'd throw in entirely too much info.....

You have good points. Floyd is in no way feather-fisted. Otherwise, Mosley, Oscar, Corrales, Castillo...all walk him down. I can't remember what round, I think 5 where Oscar had opened up and damn near got his head taken off! Oscar never really tried again after that because he would have go KTFO! Unless you want to count those wide-a** Rocky Balboa flurries to Floyd's elbows. How anyone gave Oscar more than 3 rounds?

Forgive me if someone has already said this. But you need a lot to go your way to beat him. It's gotta be a tall guy that can hurt him early and not get ko happy. Then throw constant jabs, not at his head but at his chest. And as you jab to his chest, you have to step to the left and push him to your right to avoid the pull counter.

It has to be someone like Castillo that has the iron chin to get in the pocket with Floyd, where he's even better than the outside, and concentrate on the body about 75% for the first six and outwork him. It will fool some judges. But then you still have to hope you've worn him down more than you are, need size, a jab and insane power in both hands. Because you have to make him want to fight the last half outside and STILL outwork him. They don't have to land, you can't be thinking KO, you have to be in the best shape of your life and hope for a little help with the judges.

I'm not saying he's unbeatable. But almost every style possible with the exception of Castillo has not even come close. And he's made adjustments on pressure fighters since Castillo too. So it's not a model anymore. It would have to be a very high energy, very active fighter who would not allow Mayweather to control space.

I just don't see that fighter anywhere near his weight class.

One fighter now I can see giving him problems because of how awkward? Martinez. But I still think Floyd figures that one out after 3-4 rounds.

One fight that the general public would find boring that I think would have been very interesting and VERY difficult for Floyd would be Winky in his prime. Tall, long southpaw jab with great defense himself. But I still think Floyd is too accurate and gets a dec.

You bascially need a phenom like prime Jones. But even then a perfect game plan like I first mentioned has to be followed. Floyd has slown down a bit. But I still think you need someone with that kind of natural ability, equal speed and in a disciplined fight plan.

Sorry everyone. It's not gonna be Pacquiao. Floyd controls distance to well and is very unpunished. The only hope for Pacquiao is if Floyd becomes like other great fighters at 35. Assuming they fight next May, Floyd will have just turned 35. The first time Whitaker was convincingly beaten by Trinidad? Just turned 35. Jones v Tarver 2? Just after Jones turned 35.

But before you get your hopes up, Floyd is more fundamentally sound that Jones and has better defense than he did. And despite being a great defensive fighter, Whitaker did take much more punishment over his career than Floyd and was not the offensive fighter Floyd was.

You need a cross between Leonard, Chavez and Duran to beat him. Matched speed on offense(Leonard), in his chest, hammering his body,arms, shoulder-whatever he gives you without being discouraged(Chavez), and the mental games Duran used to play-not shaving or showering for a couple weeks before his fights and then mauling his opponents, talkin' ****, overall solid offense and defense, and someone who could cut the ring off better than anyone and figure out the perfect plan and adjustments on the fly(Duran & Arcel were perfect at that).

Any of those guys separately would have a good chance of beating him. More Leonard than the others. But if you could combine the three?? Haha!

One other historical fighter that would have given him real problems that would have the style and built-in fight plan to beat him would be Marvin Hagler. Southpaw, iron chin, cut the ring, and an excellent boxer-puncher. And I'm talking the early eighties version, not the 85-87 version.

Julian Jackson's power wouldn't hurt either.

Thomas Hearns in the fight plan he used against Leonard the first time would probably beat him. He would have made it to 12 since there aren't 15 rounds, very tall, very good jab, and possibly the quickest and hardest RH ever. If he couldn't KO Floyd, I think he's the one with the best chance of winning based on height, length etc.

Don't get the wrong idea. I don't think Floyd is GOAT. But he is probably the most disciplined fighter in the ring I have ever seen. It would take the perfect fight plan and equal discipline to beat him.

I can't do It....BuT SOMEBODY PLEASE GIVE THIS MAN GREEN K

[Gino Ros]

If you go into a fight trying to out-defend Floyd Mayweather, you will lose. Simple as that. Mayweather's offense isn't complicated enough for a fighter to be worrying about it anywhere near as much as his defense. His offense comes from his defense.

I respectfully disagree here.

Lead left hooks. hooks to the body, check hooks. lead right hands. the jab, the pullcounter. that counter right hook over the top. the jab to the body. the jab in your face. the elbow/push-off.

Floyd has a very varied and complex offensive attack.

How many fighters throw all there punches WELL?