tyson hardest puncher in history?

[nomadman]

Actually, as you may probably have noticed Tyson didn't really need to recover when he missed a punch,. The unique way he was taught meant than when he either delivered or missed a punch, he was immediately by just a slight weight shift, in position to deliver another punch with the other fist, on the return you might say. That was why it often looked like non-stop, or multiple combinations etc.

When I was boxing many years ago, this was one of the things we used to do. More on the bag than in the ring I admit, but that was only a matter of intense practice, or confidence. And, being amateurs, with no intention of ever becoming pros, when we sparred, unless it was a mismatch, just for the exercise, we would go at it like a regular fight. Especially when we had visiting boxers from other clubs who might drop in to train with us.

Laszlo Papp, my favourite boxer, had an amateur record of 301-5. Unbelievable eh?

The younger Tyson did a similar thing to Marciano, only at a far faster level. He'd roll with the momentum of the punch and bring himself back into position to land the second shot. Older Tyson tended to lunge more with his shots, which left him off balance and unable to retaliate with a return blow. It might have gotten a bit more power into the punch but it was to his detriment as a fighter.

[chito]

it's just tyson was a lot quicker for a heavyweight but i honestly think he's not the hardest puncher

[Haglerwins]

larry holmes

In fairness, Holmes himself is on record as saying that Shavers (who he fought more in shape) hit harder than Tyson.

Yep. Shavers has an extremely high career KO rate if I remember right. Higher than Rock's and Foreman's.

Holme's description of Earnie's power was disturbing too.. whereas he stated Mike was a sharp puncher (the damage was done exactly where Tyson placed his punch),

Larry said when he got hit by Shaver's, that he could feel it throughout his entire body. He said the shot that Earnie dropped him with was 'way too hard' even, it ended up 'waking him up' instead of causing a knock out.

I wonder how many other fighters Earnie was hitting this way that it was causing him to produce zombies instead of sending them to dream street right away.

[nomadman]

Yep. Shavers has an extremely high career KO rate if I remember right. Higher than Rock's and Foreman's.

Holme's description of Earnie's power was disturbing too.. whereas he stated Mike was a sharp puncher (the damage was done exactly where Tyson placed his punch),

Shavers' stoppage percentage is a good one, indicating good finishing ability and power, two things which I've never denied Shavers having. However, a large number of those fights were either never filmed or lost to us, meaning we can't accurately guage Shavers's power from the stoppages alone (since a stoppage can be caused by any number of factors). With Tyson we have, I believe, every professional fight of his on film, so we can form a much more informed opinion of his punching power than we can of Shavers. Hell, Shavers may be a harder puncher than Tyson for all I know, but simply comparing the available footage of him with Tyson's doesn't convince me of that. And I don't care what Homles, Ali et al said. Briggs said Vitali was a harder puncher than Foreman and Lewis. Not saying they're a bunch of liars, but you should never take a fighter's word at face value, espeically not one who beat the opponent they're talking about.

Larry said when he got hit by Shaver's, that he could feel it throughout his entire body. He said the shot that Earnie dropped him with was 'way too hard' even, it ended up 'waking him up' instead of causing a knock out.

I wonder how many other fighters Earnie was hitting this way that it was causing him to produce zombies instead of sending them to dream street right away.

What Holmes professes to feel is secondary to what actually happens. Simply put, there's no physiological explanation for how a punch could be so hard that it would knock someone out then wake them up again. Either a punch knocks you out or it doesn't. And I think most people would agree that the former would be a harder punch than the latter, all else being equal. Looking at the punch that Shavers landed and comparing it with the one Tyson landed, I see an almost identical reaction from Holmes, the difference being, of course, that Tyson was able to finish him off. At any rate, even if you were to ignore the finish which could be related to any number of factors, there's no denying that that first shot which started the damage was at least as hard as the one Shavers threw. It came out of the blue, like Shavers's, and it dropped Holmes hard, like Shavers's.

Funny thing is, that Shavers right hand is routinely considered one of the hardest punches in boxing history, and the highlight of Shavers's career. With Tyson it's just one of many. Yet Shavers is considered the harder one-punch puncher? Does that make sense to you?

[CubanGuyNYC]

Actually, as you may probably have noticed Tyson didn't really need to recover when he missed a punch,. The unique way he was taught meant than when he either delivered or missed a punch, he was immediately by just a slight weight shift, in position to deliver another punch with the other fist, on the return you might say. That was why it often looked like non-stop, or multiple combinations etc.

When I was boxing many years ago, this was one of the things we used to do. More on the bag than in the ring I admit, but that was only a matter of intense practice, or confidence. And, being amateurs, with no intention of ever becoming pros, when we sparred, unless it was a mismatch, just for the exercise, we would go at it like a regular fight. Especially when we had visiting boxers from other clubs who might drop in to train with us.

Laszlo Papp, my favourite boxer, had an amateur record of 301-5. Unbelievable eh?

What you seem to be describing in the first paragraph bold, Edgar, has been described as "chaining" punches. It's not unique to Tyson. It's the characteristic effect of most combinations. Take a typical one-two-three combo as an example: The combination starts off with the jab, which naturally puts the body in position to deliver a straight right. The weight transfer automatically loads up the left hook.

What I do consider nearly unique to Tyson (at least among heavyweights) was his great balance. Even when missing a hook, delivered with tremendous torque, he never seemed wild. He was able to set-up again very quickly. (Perhaps this is what you're referring to?) Balance, by the way, is an overlooked element of Tyson's awesome punching power. On several occasions, I've seen Tyson miss with an overhand right, end up in a southpaw stance and, with a quick "shuffle/hop", shift his body right back to an orthodox stance. He was very quick about it. I don't think I've ever seen another fighter do that.

As for the sparring, I had a similar experience. Whenever I sparred with someone of comparable ability, it usually turned into a real fight. Unless the goal from the outset was to work on something specific, it was always more fun to go all out.

[jtiger777]

George Foreman and Ernie Shavers

yep and dont forget julian jackson

[CubanGuyNYC]

Mike's power came from his unique combination of blistering speed, explosiveness, and raw strength, coupled with a squat body, aggressive killer instinct that went for it 100% and superb ingrained technique on pretty much every power punch he threw. When he put everything together, and he frequently did, he was capable of delivering some of the single hardest shots in history. Of course that meant that if anything went wrong his power suffered as a result, but if we're just measuring one punch ability here I seriously can't see too many competitors in that department.

You raise a good point about Foreman and Vitali. Both men generated their power from their size and raw strength, and both men tended to arm punch, meaning they were mostly engaging only the top half of their bodies. This allowed them to punch with consistently heavy shots throughout the course of a fight, which might result in later round knockouts via accumulation where a fighter like Tyson suffers in that departement. Foreman also possessed great stability in frame, meaning his punches, whilst slow, would just drive straight through the mass of his opponents as though they weren't even there. That's one aspect where I think Foreman reigns supreme.

Tua was a weird combination of both puncher types, explosive and fast but also strong as a mofo. That's why his punches had such a sickening effect on his opponents at any stage of a fight, and why I consider him the hardest puncher of all time.

Perhaps your best post, yet, on the subject.

The younger Tyson did a similar thing to Marciano, only at a far faster level. He'd roll with the momentum of the punch and bring himself back into position to land the second shot. Older Tyson tended to lunge more with his shots, which left him off balance and unable to retaliate with a return blow. It might have gotten a bit more power into the punch but it was to his detriment as a fighter.

The older Tyson was a shell of "prime" Tyson. Gone were the head-movement, balance and combinations. The only thing left was the raw power. And even that suffered by the loss of balance. The less-frequent combos also meant that Tyson had to rely much more on sheer power and one-punch KOs.

[CubanGuyNYC]

Holme's description of Earnie's power was disturbing too.. whereas he stated Mike was a sharp puncher (the damage was done exactly where Tyson placed his punch),

Larry said when he got hit by Shaver's, that he could feel it throughout his entire body. He said the shot that Earnie dropped him with was 'way too hard' even, it ended up 'waking him up' instead of causing a knock out.

I never heard Holmes's description of Tyson and Shavers' power. But it's actually something I meant to mention myself. Larry's account seems to validate my observation. Tyson always seemed to land with precision, like a hammer hitting a nail straight on the head...concentrated force.

[Da7thsign]

Not the hardest in history, but his combination of speed and accuracy along woththe torque he is able to add because of his style of punching made him devaststing.. And I hope whoever said Manny hits harder was just joking..

[nomadman]

What you seem to be describing in the first paragraph bold, Edgar, has been described as "chaining" punches. It's not unique to Tyson. It's the characteristic effect of most combinations. Take a typical one-two-three combo as an example: The combination starts off with the jab, which naturally puts the body in position to deliver a straight right. The weight transfer automatically loads up the left hook.

What I do consider nearly unique to Tyson (at least among heavyweights) was his great balance. Even when missing a hook, delivered with tremendous torque, he never seemed wild. He was able to set-up again very quickly. (Perhaps this is what you're referring to?) Balance, by the way, is an overlooked element of Tyson's awesome punching power. On several occasions, I've seen Tyson miss with an overhand right, end up in a southpaw stance and, with a quick "shuffle/hop", shift his body right back to an orthodox stance. He was very quick about it. I don't think I've ever seen another fighter do that.

Indeed. Tyson's power punching came from a much more refined set of skills than he's usually given credit for. He was aggressive and powerful and fast, but he almost always delivered his punches with the precision of an artist. People mention this as though it were a separate aspect of his punching, distinct from his 'power', without actually realising that it was his power. An integral part of it at least.