The greatest boxer ever is still boxing

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  • BennyST
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    #21
    It's one of those weird fights that for some reason annoys me. A bit like the Martinez/Cintron fight, Oscar/Mayweather fight, Morales/Maidana fight etc. They were clear wins for one of them and yet for very bizarre, strange, usually straight up ******ed, ignorant, biased fanboy opinions they say silly things like "Floyd hardly won that fight. Oscar could have been given that decision" or "Barrera won that fight! He should have gotten an extra point for a KD too" and "Martinez couldn't even beat Cintron. He sucks" or "Morales got totally robbed. He beat Maidana"

    It's really like no one has watched any of the fights they're talking about. Mayweather won most rounds against Oscar. You could make a very strong case he won ten rounds, though it's more like 8-4. Ineffective fluuries that don't land, whilst you're also getting cleanly countered don't score.

    Cintron got KTFO. Literally. Then he lost most rounds, whilst conceding two knock downs (one of those being a knock out). Just incredible.
    Maidana won the first half of that fight in a whitewash. Clearly, easily, dominantly. He then won maybe half the remaining rounds. Morales fought like he hadn't in years and even hurt Maidana, but he clearly, clearly lost. Nostalgia is great, and I'm all for the old vet getting the upperhand, but when they don't win, they don't win. We can't change it by repeating it ad nauseum.

    Marquez won the fight on a round by round basis clearly. Barrera shouldn't have been given a 10-8 round because even with the KD, he intentionally fouled which would have caused, at the very least, a one point deduction and he had lost every second of that whole round badly up to the very end. It would have ended up at best an even or if Barrera was really lucky a 10-9 round for him. Being that he had nearly a 10-8 round against him without the KD after being beaten up the whole round, a 10-10 seems much more likely given the circumstances.

    Whatever the case, that one (we'll go with Barrera getting a 10-9 round) point discrepancy made no difference at all on any card. He would still have lost and deservedly so. I think we want to give Barrera more credit because it was his last great performance. He fought hard and went out like a warrior rather than just going for the paycheck as he did against Pac, but he just lost the fight. All of those guys just lost as much as we would have liked them to win one last great time.

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    • IronDanHamza
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      #22
      Originally posted by BennyST
      It's one of those weird fights that for some reason annoys me. A bit like the Martinez/Cintron fight, Oscar/Mayweather fight, Morales/Maidana fight etc. They were clear wins for one of them and yet for very bizarre, strange, usually straight up ******ed, ignorant, biased fanboy opinions they say silly things like "Floyd hardly won that fight. Oscar could have been given that decision" or "Barrera won that fight! He should have gotten an extra point for a KD too" and "Martinez couldn't even beat Cintron. He sucks" or "Morales got totally robbed. He beat Maidana"

      It's really like no one has watched any of the fights they're talking about. Mayweather won most rounds against Oscar. You could make a very strong case he won ten rounds, though it's more like 8-4. Ineffective fluuries that don't land, whilst you're also getting cleanly countered don't score.

      Cintron got KTFO. Literally. Then he lost most rounds, whilst conceding two knock downs (one of those being a knock out). Just incredible.
      Maidana won the first half of that fight in a whitewash. Clearly, easily, dominantly. He then won maybe half the remaining rounds. Morales fought like he hadn't in years and even hurt Maidana, but he clearly, clearly lost. Nostalgia is great, and I'm all for the old vet getting the upperhand, but when they don't win, they don't win. We can't change it by repeating it ad nauseum.

      Marquez won the fight on a round by round basis clearly. Barrera shouldn't have been given a 10-8 round because even with the KD, he intentionally fouled which would have caused, at the very least, a one point deduction and he had lost every second of that whole round badly up to the very end. It would have ended up at best an even or if Barrera was really lucky a 10-9 round for him. Being that he had nearly a 10-8 round against him without the KD after being beaten up the whole round, a 10-10 seems much more likely given the circumstances.

      Whatever the case, that one (we'll go with Barrera getting a 10-9 round) point discrepancy made no difference at all on any card. He would still have lost and deservedly so. I think we want to give Barrera more credit because it was his last great performance. He fought hard and went out like a warrior rather than just going for the paycheck as he did against Pac, but he just lost the fight. All of those guys just lost as much as we would have liked them to win one last great time.
      Got to be honest, I was one of those guys!

      I just got so caught up in the old veteran who I watched when he was a young kid beating up Daniel Zaragoza putting a great and valiant performance against a dangerous, strong as a bull, top fighter at 140 and got a litttleeeee carried away.

      After watching it again, Morales really didn't win, but still, great performance from him.

      We've all been there!!

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      • STRUGG
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        #23
        Morales is sooo much better than this guy.........................tbh

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        • LeG00N
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          #24
          Originally posted by IronDanHamza
          Barrera is greater than Marquez.
          Not by a lot.

          They've both have faced tough opponents
          Barrera has had better wins ...

          JMM has never been KO'd or stopped.

          even when fighting arguably the most skilled fighter in the world 2 weight classes above his own.

          hell with the exception of his first lose most of JMM's loses have been questionable. He was only dominated by Mayweather (for obvious reasons)

          While...we know about Barreras numerous decisive losses and stoppages ..

          it's not too unreasonable to make an argument eitherway IMO

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          • pasawayako
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            #25
            Barrera is a great boxer no doubt about that but being the greatest is laughable i think barrera is just as great as floyd jr.

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            • IronDanHamza
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              #26
              Originally posted by MANIAC310
              Not by a lot.

              They've both have faced tough opponents
              Barrera has had better wins ...

              JMM has never been KO'd or stopped.

              even when fighting arguably the most skilled fighter in the world 2 weight classes above his own.

              hell with the exception of his first lose most of JMM's loses have been questionable. He was only dominated by Mayweather (for obvious reasons)

              While...we know about Barreras numerous decisive losses and stoppages ..

              it's not too unreasonable to make an argument eitherway IMO
              I disagree. I think there is a gap betweem him and Barrera.

              Barrera has the better resume of the two, quite clearly. And for me, is quite the clearly the greater fighter.

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              • BennyST
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                #27
                Originally posted by IronDanHamza
                Got to be honest, I was one of those guys!

                I just got so caught up in the old veteran who I watched when he was a young kid beating up Daniel Zaragoza putting a great and valiant performance against a dangerous, strong as a bull, top fighter at 140 and got a litttleeeee carried away.

                After watching it again, Morales really didn't win, but still, great performance from him.

                We've all been there!!
                Yeah man, most definitely. It's so easy to get up in the moment. I always make sure I watch those type of fights again much later with a clear head and no sound and invariably, it turns out so much different than you initially thought.

                Originally posted by MANIAC310
                Not by a lot.

                They've both have faced tough opponents
                Barrera has had better wins ...

                JMM has never been KO'd or stopped.

                even when fighting arguably the most skilled fighter in the world 2 weight classes above his own.

                hell with the exception of his first lose most of JMM's loses have been questionable. He was only dominated by Mayweather (for obvious reasons)

                While...we know about Barreras numerous decisive losses and stoppages ..

                it's not too unreasonable to make an argument eitherway IMO
                Barrera has the single greater wins, with the prime Morales and Hamed and while I think Marquez beat Pac as close as Barrera beat Morales, the more popular fighter got the nod (Pac) and so what should have been his career defining, ATG legend-making win was nicked off him because of future money.

                As it stands though and when Marquez is finally said and done, he's ended up facing arguably tougher competition, done better throughout though against the lesser foes overall (his wins I mean) and has been more consistent overall. Barrera was just more popular early on and got the bigger fights earlier which hurts Marquez, as when he was at his true, prime best he was avoided by everyone like the plague. All his losses have been very touch and go and all but Mayweather could, and often should, have gone his way.

                It's certainly arguable that he could end up as high by the end of his career. I wouldn't argue it if someone said they thought he was above him TBH, but I would still say Barrera is personally.
                Last edited by BennyST; 08-13-2011, 06:50 AM.

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                • tennis-legend
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                  #28
                  in the all time list i would list barrerra , JMM and mayweather equal

                  moseley and pacquiao ahead of them

                  oscar belongs in the group but i dont know where

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                  • IronDanHamza
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                    #29
                    Originally posted by tennis-legend
                    in the all time list i would list barrerra , JMM and mayweather equal

                    moseley and pacquiao ahead of them

                    oscar belongs in the group but i dont know where
                    Mosley? Really?

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                    • BennyST
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                      #30
                      Originally posted by tennis-legend
                      in the all time list i would list barrerra , JMM and mayweather equal

                      moseley and pacquiao ahead of them

                      oscar belongs in the group but i dont know where
                      Mosley? Ahead of Barrera, Mayweather and Marquez? Maybe Marquez and maybe even Barrera, but not Mayweather.

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