When assesing a fighters resume loses count to, DUH

[Las Vegas,]

It depends. I can easily say "Floyd lost 5 times in the amateurs!" even though they're loses but really in reality people won't count them. Floyd was a kid and he went on to bigger and better things. Just like Pacquiao did.

[Doctor_Tenma]

Nope, I disagree all loses count no matter when they occur. The same people who say that Roy Jones Jr. has tarnished his legacy with all his recent defeats will ignore Pac's KO loses to Torrecampo and Singsurat and Wlad's KO loses to Sanders, Brewster and Purity. That makes no sense. Everything you do in your career matters. I'm a SRL fan but you can't ignore his loss to Camacho. Everything a fighter does counts, it's about an entire career not just portions of it.

Leonard was so far gone, see if your gonna consider his lose to Camacho then I don't know what to tell you. The circumstances matter, I don't think any less of Roy since his recent loses either.

[$tate of Mind]

did you just compare Roy Jones losses to Pac's losses and saying they're in the same context?

A loss is a loss no matter when it occurs. If you lose it still counts and goes down on your record. Now if you're talking about a controversial loss that's different. Loses count just like wins count.

[MaD RoBoT]

It means those loses should affect the judgment of his resume. The loses do make up a part of his resume right, or do they not count?

you pulling the "undefeated" card here, i can sense it

[Jack Napier]

Lebedev rules!
you know, because he KO'd Roy in 2011
HUGE victory :laugh:

[$tate of Mind]

It depends. I can easily say "Floyd lost 5 times in the amateurs!" even though they're loses but really in reality people won't count them. Floyd was a kid and he went on to bigger and better things. Just like Pacquiao did.

People don't judge a fighters resume by what was done in the amateurs, it's about what happens when they go pro.

[MaD RoBoT]

A loss is a loss no matter when it occurs. If you lose it still counts and goes down on your record. Now if you're talking about a controversial loss that's different. Loses count just like wins count.

you're contradicting yourself there

[$tate of Mind]

you pulling the "undefeated" card here, i can sense it

I'm not trying to pull anything, if I was best believe I would let it be known loud and clear. All I'm saying is that loses should not be ignored. Loses count the same way that wins count. Floyd will probably lose one day anyway.

[$tate of Mind]

you're contradicting yourself there

Controversial i.e. a robbery, a fight being stopped due to an injury, etc. However, a clear cut loss should not be ignored.

[Everywhere]

People don't judge a fighters resume by what was done in the amateurs, it's about what happens when they go pro.

Not necessarily...Ali's gold medal is brought up almost every time you hear about him. It definitely is involved in his legacy.

As for counting losses, Pacquiao's early losses don't really say much, especially when he has built a legacy since then. When you compare it to RJJ as you did, you are looking at a guy who had established a legacy and is now tarnishing in an incredibly sad and painful to watch way. Pacquiao's loss to Morales and the draw with JMM show more than the other losses IMO.

10-20 years from now it will be a different story. People will look at Pacquiao's overall record and see the losses and draws scattered throughout and they will be counted against him then. But as of right now they don't really have an effect how great a fighter he is currently.