Sergio Martinez didnt get good until he was 34! Thats not suspect? Is he overrated?

[BennyST]

Let's make this a rule:

Anyone who says Martinez had a draw with Cintron should not be allowed to post, period.

Amen. What daft ****s.

[JAB5239]

Also comparing a guy like Sergio who as I mentioned has only gone up 13 lbs in 14 years vs Pac who has gone up from 108 to fighting for the Junior Middleweight Title, is just silly.

Think about this.....Pac was had just turned 17 when he went pro, Martinez almost 23. This means Pac was still growing at a much faster rate than Martinez. He spent 1 year at 108 before outgrowing it. 2 years at 112 before being unable to make weight anymore. At this point he is still only 20 years old. He spent 3 years at 122 and just over a year at 126. Spent 3 years at 130, had 1 fight at 135 and has since never weighed more than 145 3/4lbs for a fight. It isn't like this weight was put on in just a couple of years, but over almost 16 years after starting out as a kid. Average it out and its about 2.5lbs a year. That really isn't that much when you think about it, especially after he came to the US, got better strength coaches, nutrition etc. He didn't just go from 108 to 145 in a flash.

[JAB5239]

He isn't a light middle weight knocking out heavyweights, and he started boxing at the age of twenty which would make him prime in his career just about where he is now.not to mention he's willing to take Blood tests!

Actually he didn't turn pro till he was almost 23.

[ronniejunior]

Think about this.....Pac was had just turned 17 when he went pro, Martinez almost 23. This means Pac was still growing at a much faster rate than Martinez. He spent 1 year at 108 before outgrowing it. 2 years at 112 before being unable to make weight anymore. At this point he is still only 20 years old. He spent 3 years at 122 and just over a year at 126. Spent 3 years at 130, had 1 fight at 135 and has since never weighed more than 145 3/4lbs for a fight. It isn't like this weight was put on in just a couple of years, but over almost 16 years after starting out as a kid. Average it out and its about 2.5lbs a year. That really isn't that much when you think about it, especially after he came to the US, got better strength coaches, nutrition etc. He didn't just go from 108 to 145 in a flash.

all while retaining his speed and power...if shane mosley says pacquiao hit
him the hardest even surpassing the late vernon forest...then something
ain't right...not to mention the catch weights...when pacquiao fans come out of their irrational thinking and emotions then they will demand for pacquiao himself to take the tests to prove himself in what would be the biggest fight in boxing history...

[Ray*]

Guess Hopkins who started out at 28 has something to hide too..

[JAB5239]

all while retaining his speed and power...if shane mosley says pacquiao hit
him the hardest even surpassing the late vernon forest...then something
ain't right...not to mention the catch weights...when pacquiao fans come out of their irrational thinking and emotions then they will demand for pacquiao himself to take the tests to prove himself in what would be the biggest fight in boxing history...

Why not? It certainly seems Martinez has done the same and he's 3 years older. So why can one fighter do it and be PED free and not another? And besides Hatton, Pacquiao hasn't had a 1 punch ko in awhile. In fact his last 3 fights have been won on decision. The Cotto, DLH and Diaz fights were an accumulation of punches because of speed. And if Im not mistaken David Diaz said it wasn't that Manny's punches were hard, but that they were so fast he couldn't see them coming. So whats your point?

[BennyST]

all while retaining his speed and power...if shane mosley says pacquiao hit
him the hardest even surpassing the late vernon forest...then something
ain't right...not to mention the catch weights...when pacquiao fans come out of their irrational thinking and emotions then they will demand for pacquiao himself to take the tests to prove himself in what would be the biggest fight in boxing history...

There is a very, very big difference between getting hit as a shot, semi punch drunk 40 year old and going down very briefly to getting hit as a prime, undefeated 25 year old P4P number 1 and not being able to stand up for two rounds properly.

Mosley, without doubt, got hit harder with more resultant damage by Forrest. Being older might have made him feel weirder against Pac, but if Forrest landed those same shots on Pac's version of Mosley, he would have been out for the count or unable to stand back up at all.

Hmmm, I've forgotten what any of this has to do with the thread....

[Cash Cow]

What the hell are you talking about? Do you expect a man who started boxing at age 20 to reach his potentional five years later? There's nothing suspect about Martinez progress.

During an outstanding amateur career with a total of 41 bouts, Martinez was a 2-time Argentine Champion as well as Inter Continental Champion. He was a member of the National Team where he participated in the 1997 World Amateur Championship in Hungary, along with teammates Omar Narvaez, Javier Alvarez, Fabricio Nieva, Guillermo Saputo, and Santiago Nieva.

[Cash Cow]

Well my man, your thread is dying because folks are responding as if you're accusing Sergio of being on PEDs, which you haven't'.

You have asked a legitimate question.

Sergio has 2 noteworthy wins in his entire career.

He's been knocked out by Antonio Margarito.

He's drawn with Cintron.

The man became a pro in 1997 and didn't win a significant match until 2010???

I see exactly what you're saying Cash Cow.

I've said it myself, but this is the current boxing culture now. Everyone who has a win, especially if they are not American, are hailed as P4P fighters even IF they only have 1 or 2 meaningful wins.

And when you consider that Pavlik was coming of a loss to Hopkins and Williams had already been exposed by Quintana ... well I understand your point, Cash Cow.

Sergio Martinez is an exciting fighter as he gets in there and does his best to win. His win over Williams was powerful considering Williams had never been stopped. Pavlik was doing well through the early rounds, but Martinez found a ***** in his armor in the middle rounds.

This doesn't justify anyone calling him a P4P fighter though. The P4P term has been so battered and molested that it carries no real meaning anymore.

P4P used to mean that a smaller fighter's skills would be put up against a bigger man's skills leaving physical attributes out of it. When a fighter's skills came out victorious in a round robin against the current best he was called P4P.

Nowadays, pseudo-intellectuals like Max Kellerman and company use the term to describe anyone who has won the last big fight against another big name, but not necessarily a big talent. That totally stripped the term of the true significance it once carried.

So Martinez .. who has only won 2 significant fights out of 51 .. is ridiculously been called P4P because boxing is in dire need of stars.

If Judah beats Khan tonight, I wonder if they'll be calling the American P4P after such a win? I'm sure they would be calling Khan P4P if he wins.

Its a sham. No one should even be considered for that kind of distinction without longevity. That term was created for Ray Robinson, who after his first loss to LaMotta, went on a 91 fight winning streak. That's called longevity. That's when you know you have a fighter that is consistent at being great and deserves to have such considerations.

Its not as much fantasy boxing as much as its an acknowledgment that a specific fighter's skill and talent are so set apart from ANY other fighter in ANY other division that he is widely believed to have the ability to win at ANY weight .. if size and ONLY size were not a factor.

That's a hell of a compliment, but one that should not be lightly thrown around. Most of today's crop of fighters aren't even close to fitting that criteria. Yet at some point or another they are ALL called P4P.

Good thread, Cash Cow.

^^^this is not difficult to understand...

[Larry the boss]

he's been good he just now started getting the fights that put him in the spot light?