Wlads op and the HOF

[vacon04]

And what is left is resume and level of competition. Based on this it is simply not feasible tor any objective person to consider them top 10 all time. This has always been my argument, but some cannot seem to grasp it.

I agree that the main argument should be a boxer's resume and level of competition, but it's not as simple as that. In the end a lot is subjective, because it's not like anyone can actually say if any boxer is a 10, or a 9 or a 1 in terms of level. You can make an opinion, but there's no science to tell you that you're right or wrong.

So it's actually really hard to tell if a guy like Wlad is top 10 or not top 10 all time. By the competition he has faced maybe not, by the way he has dominated his opponents he should be, but as I've said it's hard not to judge by the way a guy fights. Is Wlad more skilled than some guys from the past? Maybe, Maybe not. Everyone has their own opinion, and as much as I would like to say that this is an exact science and that everything can be judged objectively, it cannot. I say Wlad is top 15-20 HW of all time, and maybe some others would say that he's top 10 or top 50 by looking the same fights and the same resume that I've seen, but hey maybe I like more Wlad so I think he's top 20, but some other guy could say that he hates Wlad and that's why he's not top 20. A lot of this is subjective...

[JAB5239]

I agree that the main argument should be a boxer's resume and level of competition, but it's not as simple as that. In the end a lot is subjective, because it's not like anyone can actually say if any boxer is a 10, or a 9 or a 1 in terms of level. You can make an opinion, but there's no science to tell you that you're right or wrong.

So it's actually really hard to tell if a guy like Wlad is top 10 or not top 10 all time. By the competition he has faced maybe not, by the way he has dominated his opponents he should be, but as I've said it's hard not to judge by the way a guy fights. Is Wlad more skilled than some guys from the past? Maybe, Maybe not. Everyone has their own opinion, and as much as I would like to say that this is an exact science and that everything can be judged objectively, it cannot. I say Wlad is top 15-20 HW of all time, and maybe some others would say that he's top 10 or top 50 by looking the same fights and the same resume that I've seen, but hey maybe I like more Wlad so I think he's top 20, but some other guy could say that he hates Wlad and that's why he's not top 20. A lot of this is subjective...

My key to judging a fighters place is knowing what his competition did before AND after his fight with said fighter. How long were they ranked before getting their shot, how long were they ranked after and who their competition was to put them into position to begin with. It may not be perfect (as you said, it is after all subjective) but I think it works better than just saying fighter A is better than fighter B without any breakdown at all.

[DET. IRONSIDE]

I'm not a Wlad fan bro but I'm pretty sure he makes the top 20. His performance on Saturday was the final clincher. Thats the furthest he's been pushed since he's been KOed but he was obviously in control despite getting pushed a little.

People are acting like it was a real stinker but that was a pretty good fight. I'd rather see Haye fall to the floor when Wlad clinches than to see a hugfest.

It does look like Haye is giving him a ******* at points though.

THATS dominance!

[vacon04]

My key to judging a fighters place is knowing what his competition did before AND after his fight with said fighter. How long were they ranked before getting their shot, how long were they ranked after and who their competition was to put them into position to begin with. It may not be perfect (as you said, it is after all subjective) but I think it works better than just saying fighter A is better than fighter B without any breakdown at all.

Yeah with that I completely agree, saying one fighter in better than the other just because you like him more is not reasonable. I like Wlad, as I've said I think he's top 15-20 HW of all time and I can give you some reasons, but a guy who says "Wlad is the best of all time because I say he is" well that is just plain crap. When I post in this forum of course I defend certain boxers that I like, but I try to use mainly logic and common sense when it comes to argue about boxing. Some guys here just like a certain boxer and treat him like he's the best all time and say an unbelievable amount of nonsense.

Boxing is a science but it's also an art. You can rank a fighter based on his record, dominance, etc, but yeah as it's still an art it's impossible to say completely objectively his exact place in the all times ranking. Where would the fun be if anybody could actually say "He's the best of all time, no doubt" and actually being sure that he's 100% right? This boxing forum wouldn't exist at all !

[boxingking500]

i hate these "make believe" fantasy fights...

wlad vs. ali

wlad vs. tyson

tyson smashes wlad.. ali dominates klitschko

i n all honesty we don't know 100 percent who would win.....

we can make a good honest opinion and say judging by there skills, opponets, wins, losses etc.. that fighter a will beat fighter b in a hypothetical boxing match... but we cannot say what would happen... wlad could beat ali who knows.. its all subjective..

[JAB5239]

I'm not a Wlad fan bro but I'm pretty sure he makes the top 20. His performance on Saturday was the final clincher. Thats the furthest he's been pushed since he's been KOed but he was obviously in control despite getting pushed a little.

People are acting like it was a real stinker but that was a pretty good fight. I'd rather see Haye fall to the floor when Wlad clinches than to see a hugfest.

It does look like Haye is giving him a ******* at points though.

THATS dominance!

I though Sam Peter gave him a much harder time.

[DET. IRONSIDE]

I though Sam Peter gave him a much harder time.

If you mean last year I disagree completely.

If you mean like 5 years ago, that was a different Wlad and he still won.

[BattlingNelson]

Wlad is a certain HOF'er that's for sure. It's true that todays era of heavies are among the all-time weakest (apart from the klits) which is a damn shame because Wlad likely has so much that we havent seen yet because of the mediocrity of the opposition.

He'll probably not make the HW top 10 all-time when it's all said and done, but that won't be his fault. He has dominated every opponent in his titledays in near flawless fashion and one really cannot ask for more. The thing is the opposition is so terrible.