Respect James Toney Bitches!

[oldgringo]

Regardless of what Toney accomplishes, he will always be 5'9" with what is at best a light-heavyweight frame. So far his greatest victory at HW was beating Ruiz, one of the poorest title holders in history, and even then he couldn't stop Ruiz even after landing over 60% of his punches.

Mickey Walker fought and beat better heavyweights than Toney has and no one refers to him as a heavyweight. This "Toney fights at heavyweight, so he is a natural heavyweight" argument just doesn't hold much water. If a cat barks, does that make it a dog?

Call him what he is, a blown up supermiddle/light-heavyweight campaigning at heavyweight. He's been successful so far, but that doesn't change his bone structure for God's sake.

I agree that he's not a "natural" heavyweight, but whats your point?

[Bozo_no no]

Regardless of what Toney accomplishes, he will always be 5'9" with what is at best a light-heavyweight frame. So far his greatest victory at HW was beating Ruiz, one of the poorest title holders in history, and even then he couldn't stop Ruiz even after landing over 60% of his punches.

Mickey Walker fought and beat better heavyweights than Toney has and no one refers to him as a heavyweight. This "Toney fights at heavyweight, so he is a natural heavyweight" argument just doesn't hold much water. If a cat barks, does that make it a dog?

Call him what he is, a blown up supermiddle/light-heavyweight campaigning at heavyweight. He's been successful so far, but that doesn't change his bone structure for God's sake.

Byrd's frame is just as naturally small as Toney's, and he's fought at lower weight classes.

Is he not a Heavyweigh?

Evander Holyfield bulked up from Cruiser to fight at Heavyweight. Is he not a heavyweight?


Again, fighting successfully at Heavyweight makes you a Heavyweight. Toney in optimum shape is about 220-225 at this point, and that's very solid for him.

Yes he's short, but so are a lot of Heavyweights. Tyson was short, Tua was short.

The bottom line is that it's not about the weight, it's about viably and consistantly fighting in the division.

You can harp on his fights at Heavy for being weak all you want. They're just as credible as any of the "Title Holders" last 4 fights.

Toney is a legitimate and credible top 5 Heavyweight.

[Chet]

Don't you find it interesting how these guys keep playing into Toneys fighting style?

I noticed that in several Toney fights. The corner of Toney's opponent will give the instruction to press the action and outwork him. Tommy Brooks for instance insisted Jirov do that vs Toney. And on Saturday in Berstein's key's to victory, he said one of Guinn's keys to victory was to keep a high workrate. Seriously, these guys are supposed to be experts but that has to be teh worst strategy against Toney is to try to outwork him and force the action. You want to stay on the outside against him, use reach, use movement, stay out of exchanges and just try to outpoint him with jabs, make him come to you, make him press the action. Laughable corner advice and idiocy on the part of at least Bernstein and Tommy Brooks.

[Chet]

The way Byrd fought Touch of sleep is the way I would think you would go about beating Toney. Very boring yes, but none the less the best way.

[hollister]

Which is why James Toney is already a shoe in for the Hall of Fame, and Dr. Goofy face won't even come close.

I thought you were the one going on about people predicting things when they hadn't been proven yet.
When I said "VK would beat Byrd in a rematch because he was winning the first fight" you said "You cannot say that, it hasn't happened yet, it's just your opinion". But now you can predict that VK and Wlad will never make it into the HOF. I agree, they probably won't, but that is a long way from being proven, and your opinion is just that, your opinion.

[hollister]

I don't understand why that seems to upset you. If it's not relevent, why take issue with it?

You should live by your own words and stop being a hypocrite.

[tonytucker]

So Will Vitalys

True Champion.. yes He had one title defence, that's all.. His rematch with Lewis, was one of the most bizarre fights ever seen, McCall refused to fight in the fourth and fifth rounds, beginning to cry and eventually forcing the referee to stop the fight and award Lewis the victory.

But you're right about one thing... I don't think he's ever been KD yet...
However he is still an active fighter and his time will come

If Vitaly is still fighting when he is over 40 his time might come aswell! Mc Call is the one that knocked out Lewis so that means he was the legit champion of the time because Lewis has beaten all the other top guys of his age. McCall is great, he is so much tougher than Tua...holyhell!!! He fell from the 4rth floor and did not get KOed or even break a bone..now thats tough. DO NOT LET HIS CRYING IN THE RING FOOL YOU......MCCALL IS SIMPLY NOT HUMAN!!!
Later brother brologs.
P.S Good news, my smilie things are working again.

[KidBlackie]

[[[I noticed that in several Toney fights. The corner of Toney's opponent will give the instruction to press the action and outwork him. Tommy Brooks for instance insisted Jirov do that vs Toney. And on Saturday in Berstein's key's to victory, he said one of Guinn's keys to victory was to keep a high workrate. Seriously, these guys are supposed to be experts but that has to be teh worst strategy against Toney is to try to outwork him and force the action.]]]
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In Jirov's case, it was sound advice. He was the younger fighter and gave Toney all he could handle. That was Jirov's natural style, he just lost. In Guinns case it was bad advice. Guinn has a low workrate. He should have just concentrated on setting up power shots and going for a KO. The same people who were hyping Guinn are hyping Toney. The big dogs are the Klitschos and Peter's already a terror and will be improving.

[Kid Achilles]

Byrd's frame is just as naturally small as Toney's, and he's fought at lower weight classes.

No it isn't. He is about 6', perhaps even 6'1". Byrd is a legit heavyweight, though a small boned one.

Evander Holyfield bulked up from Cruiser to fight at Heavyweight. Is he not a heavyweight?

Again, Holyfield is 6'2" with wide shoulders and is very much a (small) heavyweight. In fact, look at this picture that I seem to put up everytime someone talks about Toney being a heavyweight.




It's a great picture because Toney is lined up with Evander and you can see clearly how small he really is compared to a modestly sized heavyweight.

You seem to think merely weighing in as a heavyweight makes someone a heavyweight. If Jeff Lacy moved up to heavy and weighed a bloated 205 and somehow knocked a few guys out would you refer to him as a natural heavyweight? No that'd be ridiculous. It seems like you have trouble understanding the term natural heavyweight. When I say Toney isn't a natural heavyweight it isn't a knock to him as a fighter. I am just stating a fact, that his skeleton is average sized for a supermiddleweight/lightheavyweight.

He is undersized at heavyweight, and not even to the degree that Tyson and Joe Frazier were, who were naturally large boned (though relatively short) men.

Bottom line is that Toney is only a heavyweight because of weight training and an eating disorder. He has the frame of a light-heavyweight that has been bloated and bulked up. That much anyone can see for themself simply comparing how small he looks next to Holyfield.

Do you honestly think his skeleton somehow grew to accomodate the extra weight when he moved up to heavyweight? He's the same guy who fought Roy Jones weighing 167 pounds. Would you attempt to convince me that he had a heavyweight's frame in that fight?

[tino]

altough i agree with the brilliant post of kid achilles , i need to point out thta steroids give you bigger bones . if you take them on purpose . for a longtime . without gettin caught .