Andre Ward is top 10 P4P... But not Bute or Froch?

[intoccabile]

Because Bute hasnt fought anyone.

I agree Froch should be in somewhere behind Ward.

Behind?

It doesnt matter what you think of the fighters, better or worse.. the fact remains froch has done more at the weight, won bigger fights and should be rated higher. Until they fight, Froch is better than Ward.

[Dave Rado]

Behind?

It doesnt matter what you think of the fighters, better or worse.. the fact remains froch has done more at the weight, won bigger fights and should be rated higher. Until they fight, Froch is better than Ward.

It's not that clear cut at all. Froch lost (albeit narrowly) to Kessler, who lost every round to Ward. Froch was also very lucky to get the win over Dirrell, who most observers felt deserved to get the nod over him. Froch has only dominated one opponent in the last two years - Abraham - whereas Ward has dominated everyone he has faced, including Abraham. Froch has a better resume than Ward in terms of opposition faced, especially if you take the pre-Super 6 fights into account; but in terms of their common opponents and overall quality of wins, Ward wins hands down. It's hard to see how Froch can be considered anything other than the major underdog when they fight each other, although he's certainly a live underdog with a genuine outside chance of getting an upset. But if Froch wins, it will be considered by most to be an upset.

[intoccabile]

It's not that clear cut at all. Froch lost (albeit narrowly) to Kessler, who lost every round to Ward. Froch was also very lucky to get the win over Dirrell, who most observers felt deserved to get the nod over him. Froch has only dominated one opponent in the last two years - Abraham - whereas Ward has dominated everyone he has faced, including Abraham. Froch has a better resume than Ward in terms of opposition faced, especially if you take the pre-Super 6 fights into account; but in terms of their common opponents and overall quality of wins, Ward wins hands down. It's hard to see how Froch can be considered anything other than the major underdog when they fight each other, although he's certainly a live underdog with a genuine outside chance of getting an upset. But if Froch wins, it will be considered by most to be an upset.

Abraham won 3 of the first 4 with ward, possibly even all of the first four. Was shut out entirely against Froch. I like Froch's win more, but that's beside the point.

Pascal, Taylor, Abraham, Johnson, Dirrell (i thought dirrell won) vs
Kessler, Green, Abraham, Bika.

I think Froch takes the cake there. I feel like having 2 guys in the same weight class in the p4p list just complicates things.

Thats probably why my personal top 10 p4p looks the wya it does.

Currently it is

Top 5
Pacquiao
Martinez
Donaire
Marquez
Wladimimr

Bottom 5
Hopkins
Froch
Agbeko
Khan
Gamboa/Wonjongkam either or, I don't mind. Probably Wonjongkam.

I believe Froch has done more in his weight to be ahead of Ward and Agbeko more at hsi weight to be ahead of everyone else. I do believe, if they fought, he'd best Donaire. But that's just personal bias. I'm expecting him to beat Mares and claim his position and hopefully a shot at Nonito, granted Showtime and HBO dont complicate things.

I have Khan over BRadley for obvious reasions. I think the win over Kotelnik is bigger than every win on bradleys resume, so wen't get into the Malignaggi, Mcloskey, Salita and Maidana fights.

Bradleys best win is Alexander who lost handily to Kotelnik, I'm sure you agree too.

[S.G.]

Froch might slot into the lower half of the top ten P4P, but Ward is the man at 168lbs as far as I'm concerned. Since his coming out party against Kessler he has been totally dominant. Froch has everyone's admiration for his warrior ethos but he has struggled a bit at times, most notably in that losing effort against the same Kessler who was soundly beaten by Ward.

Bute has done fuck-all to be in the picture for the #1 SMW position, or a top 10 pound-for-pounder.

[slicksouthpaw16]

Bute isn't top 20 p4p.

Froch should be in there though, maybe even ahead of Ward.

I can agree with that. Froch has fought better comp and even though he lost to Kessler by razor thin decision, he rebounded with two good wins over Johnson and Abraham. Froch has one of the best resumes in boxing and has only lost once.

[Dave Rado]

Abraham won 3 of the first 4 with ward, possibly even all of the first four. Was shut out entirely against Froch. I like Froch's win more, but that's beside the point.

You're in a tiny minority. Almost everyone scored it 118-110 to Ward.

I believe Froch has done more in his weight to be ahead of Ward

You're entitled to you opinion, and I could respect your opinion if you removed the certainty with which you stated it. It is not clear cut at all - just as good a case can be made for Ward being ahead of Froch, and most people do have him narrowly ahead. I don't have a problem with you ranking Froch higher, just with your pretence that it's cut and dried (and the implication that anyone who disagrees, including The Ring, must therefore be either ignorant or ******).