Comments Thread For: Steward: Even if Haye Wins, He Will Never Be Lennox

[NachoMan]

Lennox Lewis might be the most overrated boxer in history.

His key fights all came against men who were no longer in their prime and/or on top.

Lennox waited for Tyson to go to jail, get out, lose and THEN he finally fought him.

Lennox waited for Holyfield to have heart problems, retire, get healed by his faith in Jesus, and THEN he finally fought him.

Lennox was a boring opportunist who got knocked out by C fighters in his prime. The was no greatness in Lewis' career. In fact, Lewis retired because he was getting his ass handed to him by the elder Klitschko, and the judges saved him from yet another embarrassing loss.

Lennox was simply a tall man in a time when heavyweights did have his height, reach or weight. His jabbed and hugged all night until he bored his competition into be reckless. After Lewis retired, Steward was in hurry to get another tall, rangy boring fighter and he ended up with the Klitschko brothers.

Aside from the formula from having fighters who are taller, heavier and have longer reach, Steward's resume as a trainer has really been **** since Tommy Hearns. And even then you saw Hearns, who was another tall and rangie fighter, get clobbered at times where he wouldn't have had he had a different trainer. Hearns only did as well as he did because of his god given punching power. Lennox didn't have that and that's why his fights were boring as hell.

I don't like Haye at all, but I won't condemn his legacy on the say so of Steward, who knows his man fought big names of guys who were shadows of their best days. Steward has got nerve to ever say something like that when he knows that Lennox never fought the best either. Hell, Lennox might as well have gotten Ali in the ring and beat him in the 90's to say that he fought and beat a guy that some believe was the best of all time! The name recognition would be on his resume .. and that seems to be all they care about.

What many people don't factor in is that Lennox is the guy who put Steward back on the map as a trainer. So Steward is always going to speak of Lennox as if he were one of the greats instead of a big guy who sought fights with over the hill legends who were smaller men.

I personally think that Steward stays relevant because of years involved and a reputation predicated on Hearns. He's worked with a lot of guys but no one stays with him because he tries to make them all fight like tall guys like Hearns and Lewis. Its all the guy knows!

The Klitschkos aren't much better. Steward seems to have tried to get them to emulate what he did with Lennox, but they are more European in their movements ... meaning stiffer, straighter and with less body and head movement. Wlad has been flattened following Steward's methodology before by D fighters like Ross Purity and C fighter Lamon Brewster.

Its easy to create a long list of fighters that he's worked with, but how many found a home under Steward's tutelage?

Now THAT'S a very short list.

Watch for Cotto to get demolished very soon. And then watch for Cotto to be looking for a new trainer soon as well.

I agree with a lot of that.

[NachoMan]

Haye is NOT the best opponent Wlad has faced, not even in the top five. What Steward says here is that even in a weak division Haye had to fake and talk his way to a shot. Thompson, Chambers, and Chagaev might be weak as challengers, but they are all better HWs than Haye is. Haye would be a massive underdog on any non-Limey reckoning against any of that three.

Not sure how Haye would have fared against all of Wlad's opponents, but stylistically you have to say that Haye is among Wlad's very toughest matchups. Except for Sanders, who had a great beard and mental toughness to go with his speed and power, Haye has to be considered (on paper) Wlad's most dangerous opponent. I think Steward has made is fairly clear that he is bracing himself for a Sanders-like outcome here. Wlad is a wonderful human being and all, a great ambassador for the support (for whatever that's worth), but he is soooo goddamn boring. He must go, and he must go hard.

[kayjay]

Wlad is a wonderful human being and all, a great ambassador for the support (for whatever that's worth), but he is soooo goddamn boring. He must go, and he must go hard.

That's fine if it's your aesthetic preference, but as a boxing prediction I can't take it too seriously. Haye is an easy matchup for Wlad. This fight is all hype and no substance. Haye has not proven to have one-punch knockout power at HW, and it's hard to imagine him sustaining any type of attack over many rounds. Forgetting Wlad's flaws, Haye has bad balance, is open and hittable, has a leaky gas tank, and a chin that's outright laughable at HW. This is no more of a serious fight than is Ortiz-Mayweather.

[NachoMan]

That's fine if it's your aesthetic preference, but as a boxing prediction I can't take it too seriously. Haye is an easy matchup for Wlad. This fight is all hype and no substance. Haye has not proven to have one-punch knockout power at HW, and it's hard to imagine him sustaining any type of attack over many rounds. Forgetting Wlad's flaws, Haye has bad balance, is open and hittable, has a leaky gas tank, and a chin that's outright laughable at HW. This is no more of a serious fight than is Ortiz-Mayweather.

Haye's flaws are obvious to everyone, but so are Wlad's (at least to some of us). Wlad is great against slow heavyweights who stand and wait for their beating. Wlad won't even throw at Haye until he stops and stands in range. What have you seen from Wlad to suggest anything different? If Haye lives up to his own hype he will follow the Sanders plan, jump on Wlad's chest and take him out early. You say that Haye has no power at HW, but, the truth is, he doesn't even need to be a heavy hitter. Wlad has a weak chin and is even weaker mentally. Wlad simply cannot fight going backwards and has no instinct to counter-punch. If Haye goes at him like Sanders (you can bet he has watched that fight 100 times), Haye will panick himself into his own TKO. I won't be surprised to see Wlad hit the canvass two or three times without even being cleanly hit. The bottom line is that Wlad (and Manny Steward) is used to being the better athlete. This time he knows he has someone who brings Sander's like athleticism and speed and that is making them nervous. I really hope Haye shows up and performs as promised. If he does, Wlad will fold just like before. Then we can all put an end to this silly ATG Heavyweight talk.

Btw, Floyd's great and he should be the favorite, but I think you should think that fight through a bit more if you don't think that it is a serious fight. Floyd may be too crafty for Vic in the end, but I see this as a FOTY matchup. Floyd deserves a lot of credit. Glad to see that people are still dismissing Ortiz though.

[-Lowkey-]

Haye is NOT the best opponent Wlad has faced, not even in the top five. What Steward says here is that even in a weak division Haye had to fake and talk his way to a shot. Thompson, Chambers, and Chagaev might be weak as challengers, but they are all better HWs than Haye is. Haye would be a massive underdog on any non-Limey reckoning against any of that three.

Thompson, Chambers, and Chagaev? It’s very questionable that Haye would be an underdog against the names you listed let alone a MASSIVE underdog that’s laughable.

Manny Steward ’he’s an exiting fighter and is DEFINATLEY the most dangerous that Wladimir will have ever faced.’

It's an NSB rarity in recent years. Now I'll get back to life and log onto the forums again maybe next year.

Judging by your first post I would say its for the best. See you next year though....

[kayjay]

Btw, Floyd's great and he should be the favorite, but I think you should think that fight through a bit more if you don't think that it is a serious fight. Floyd may be too crafty for Vic in the end, but I see this as a FOTY matchup. Floyd deserves a lot of credit. Glad to see that people are still dismissing Ortiz though.

I hope you're right, but I see that fight as a case of extortion played on the boxing public. Ortiz is my opinion one of the weaker WW belt-holders of recent years.

[Drunk Punch]

I don't think Haye ever claimed to Lennox did he? Haye is a cruiserweight who is now about to fight the HW champ.

[kayjay]

Btw reference to the Sanders fight is out of place. That fight was ten years ago and before Wlad developed his defense and footwork under Steward. Haye is not nearly as good at HW as Sanders was, but that's an irrelevant point since that sanders couldn't get within a foot of today's Wladimir. Regarding chins, I think if you look at tape you'll see Wlad has a much better chin than haye does.

[NachoMan]

Btw reference to the Sanders fight is out of place. That fight was ten years ago and before Wlad developed his defense and footwork under Steward. Haye is not nearly as good at HW as Sanders was, but that's an irrelevant point since that sanders couldn't get within a foot of today's Wladimir. Regarding chins, I think if you look at tape you'll see Wlad has a much better chin than haye does.

We'll see how it goes. I think Wlad's perceived improvement since Sanders/Brewster has a lot more to do with his opponents than his own development. I agree that Haye doesn't measure up to Sanders in many areas (fearlessness and chin being the most obvious), but he does have more of Sanders' attributes than any other fighter on Wlad's resume. This fight can be great or it can be a big disappointment. Whichever way it turns out, I think David Haye will deserve the credit/blame.

[NachoMan]

I hope you're right, but I see that fight as a case of extortion played on the boxing public. Ortiz is my opinion one of the weaker WW belt-holders of recent years.

I think Ortiz is going to surprise a lot of people (again). I put him as a very live underdog against Mayweather and I would pick him to beat (possibly KO) Pacquiao if they fought.