I'm a Martinez Fan, but isn't Dibella being hypocritical in regards to Pirog?

[DoktorSleepless]

No he would not. And, that is a ridiculous logic.

If someone beats Pacquiao, wouldn't you move him to the #1 spot? If someone beats Martinez, would you give him Martinez #2 spot. What exactly is ridiculous about it.

Wouldn't that happen with JCC Jr as well?

Yes, but Chavez brings other benefits that Pirog doesn't bring. That's my point. Pirog brings nothing to the table. If you had to choose between an overhyped prospect that would lift your career by making you famous and another overhyped prospect that would do zip for you career, I would choose the first overhyped prospect.

Why is everybody overrating JCC Jr all of a sudden? I don't get what just happened. Overnight this dude became arguably the best MW not named Martinez. WTF?

Where did you get that idea that I think I Chavez is great? I think Chavez is a bum. But Martinez deserves the right to get his WBC belt back, which the the belt Martinez cares about because it's the one Carlos Manzon held. And I want to see Chavez get his face smashed in.

[Check_hooks]

The thing is that HBO is ruining boxing. They should have ZERO say in matchmaking. What they are doing is trying to create a new face for HBO like RJJ back in the day. Mayweather is retired. Pacquiao is on SHO.

HBO is so desperate for a star that they are matching fighters up with bums. That is what they did with Bertos entire career and once he fought someone who is a C+ fighter (Ortiz) he gets dominated. Same thing would happen if Martinez fights Pirog and HBO and Dibella know it. When else have you heard a promoter say "**** this fighter, we will never fight him!"?

HBO told Dibella not to match Martinez up against Pirog cuz he already KTFO of one of HBO's future prospects and they are scraping the barrel so they Match up Martinez with a 154er who nobody has ever heard of and they force him to jump to 160 even tho hes a champ at 154 and is undefeated.

I repeat what I said at the beginning, HBO is ruining boxing by getting involved with matchmaking.

[Major Motoko]

The thing is that HBO is ruining boxing. They should have ZERO say in matchmaking. What they are doing is trying to create a new face for HBO like RJJ back in the day. Mayweather is retired. Pacquiao is on SHO.

HBO is so desperate for a star that they are matching fighters up with bums. That is what they did with Bertos entire career and once he fought someone who is a C+ fighter (Ortiz) he gets dominated. Same thing would happen if Martinez fights Pirog and HBO and Dibella know it. When else have you heard a promoter say "**** this fighter, we will never fight him!"?

HBO told Dibella not to match Martinez up against Pirog cuz he already KTFO of one of HBO's future prospects and they are scraping the barrel so they Match up Martinez with a 154er who nobody has ever heard of and they force him to jump to 160 even tho hes a champ at 154 and is undefeated.

I repeat what I said at the beginning, HBO is ruining boxing by getting involved with matchmaking.

Ortiz a C+ fighter? Fuck, Ortiz is hell of a lot better than Pacquiao's last three opponents, dumb ****.

[jrosales13]

If someone beats Pacquiao, wouldn't you move him to the #1 spot? If someone beats Martinez, would you give him Martinez #2 spot. What exactly is ridiculous about it.

Not necessarily. P4P is not a title belt, that you win in the ring in just one fight. That is what is so ridiculous about your logic. You're acting as if P4P is a title

Yes, but Chavez brings other benefits that Pirog doesn't bring. That's my point. Pirog brings nothing to the table. If you had to choose between an overhyped prospect that would lift your career by making you famous and another overhyped prospect that would do zip for you career, I would choose the first overhyped prospect.

If I am Martinez no doubt, I would JCC Jr over Pirog. JCC Jr is less of a risk. However, as a fan I want the best vs the best so give me Pirog.

Where did you get that idea that I think I Chavez is great? I think Chavez is a bum. But Martinez deserves the right to get his WBC belt back, which the the belt Martinez cares about because it's the one Carlos Manzon held. And I want to see Chavez get his face smashed in.

The WBC is a paper title. Monzon had the lineal title which Martinez already has. Funny thing is that Martinez wants to get "his belt back" but that logic never applies to Pirog who has "his belt".

I never said you thought Chavez was great. But, you're making it seem like that "bum" is arguably the best MW not named Martinez.'

In reality JCC Jr couldn't hold Sturm, Pirog, Golovkin jockstrap. I don't even think JCC Jr could beat Rubio TBH. So if you're a fan of the sport you should want the best vs the best not mismatches. Unless you're part of Martinez camp no reason you should be clamoring for this fight when there are tougher match ups in his own division.

Now if you want to make a case that Martinez is about the money and that's why a fight against JCC Jr is better. then that's fine. But, then you can't knock JCC Jr for fight Cotto which is a bigger money fight especially since Martinez wants to fight Cotto as well.

[Clegg]

There is some hypocrisy, and I dislike him attitude towards Pirog and certain other contenders, but I think DiBella has some valid points. Well, two that I can think of

1. He has basically gone through not only a very tough set of opponents one after the other, but he has faced everyone HBO wanted him to fight. Maybe I'm wrong here, but IIRC he was the underdog in 3 fights running (Williams x2 and Pavlik) so I think he has more of a reasonable position to be wanting a big money opponent from.

2. It seems that HBO, Arum and the WBC got together to plan this whole thing, WBC orders he fights Zbik, HBO refuses to accept it, Arum says Chavez will fight Zbik, HBO jumps on board. DiBella may be a hypocrite but I think he has good reason to criticise that turn of events because they basically stole the title from his fighter and I don't think Lou has ever done that before to anyone else.

[jrosales13]

There is some hypocrisy, and I dislike him attitude towards Pirog and certain other contenders, but I think DiBella has some valid points. Well, two that I can think of

1. He has basically gone through not only a very tough set of opponents one after the other, but he has faced everyone HBO wanted him to fight. Maybe I'm wrong here, but IIRC he was the underdog in 3 fights running (Williams x2 and Pavlik) so I think he has more of a reasonable position to be wanting a big money opponent from.

2. It seems that HBO, Arum and the WBC got together to plan this whole thing, WBC orders he fights Zbik, HBO refuses to accept it, Arum says Chavez will fight Zbik, HBO jumps on board. DiBella may be a hypocrite but I think he has good reason to criticise that turn of events because they basically stole the title from his fighter and I don't think Lou has ever done that before to anyone else.

I agree and I was thinking about Dibella point when it came to Zbik. HBO did turn down Zbik. It could be because they wanted a strap for Chavez Jr. Or maybe it could have been because a fight between Martinez-Zbik on paper was a mismatch? Remember HBO also turned down Martinez-Lee mismatch on paper. While on paper Martinez-Dzinziruk was a solid fight. And, on paper Chavez Jr-Zbik is a competitive fight because lets face it both fighters are eh...

I don't know, they could have been some shenanigans on HBO part or it could have been that they didn't want to air mismatches.

[DoktorSleepless]

Let's see:

1. Martinez wants Chavez over Pirog because it will make Sergio more money, but Dibella is b1tching and moaning when the table is flipped and Arum makes Chavez vs Cotto because it brings in more money.

Martinez wants Chavez because he has the belt that the WBC promised he's entitled to. He's not mad specifically because of Cotto. He's mad because he's Chavez' mandatory as the Emeritus Champ and Bob Arum is trying to **** him over. Although I won't say it has nothing to do with it, money isn't the issue. Martinez also agreed to fight Zbik for the belt beforehand if Chavez ended up losing. And Pirog isn't any better than Zbik. Zbik is actually ranked higher than Pirog in the ring ratings. Eihterway, the Pirog situation is different because Pirog is not entitled to a Martinez match the way Martinez is entitled to a Chavez match.

2. Martinez has been jumping at the opportunity to face Cotto, so why is he mad that Chavez is doing it?

Because Martinez is the mandatory for the WBC belt. Cotto isn't. Chavez could go fight Cotto for all Martinez cares. As long as he's stripped. He already said he's willing to fight Rubio for the vacant belt if Chavez does end up being stripped for ducking him.

[DoktorSleepless]

Not necessarily. P4P is not a title belt, that you win in the ring in just one fight. That is what is so ridiculous about your logic. You're acting as if P4P is a title

Yes, not necessary, but very likely. If an unknown fighter ends up beating Pacquiao in a convincing fashion, I would give him (and many media outlets) would give that person the #1 on their p4p lists. There's nothing crazy about what I'm saying. Apply the same logic to Martinez who's universally recognized as #2. Eitherway, beating Martinez would at least put him in the top #10 which is still a big deal.

If I am Martinez no doubt, I would JCC Jr over Pirog. JCC Jr is less of a risk. However, as a fan I want the best vs the best so give me Pirog.

Pirog looked like **** in his fight. Yes, Pirog is better Chavez, but risk is hardly an issue when you're in Martinez' level. As a fight fan, I want to see a Chavez fight because it would most likely take place in LA where I live and I want to see it in person. =)

The WBC is a paper title. Monzon had the lineal title which Martinez already has. Funny thing is that Martinez wants to get "his belt back" but that logic never applies to Pirog who has "his belt".

Martinez wants the WBC belt for the sentimental value. He doesn't care about the WBO belt. The WBC belt is the one that Carlos Manzon held and defended for years, not the WBO belt.

But, you're making it seem like that "bum" is arguably the best MW not named Martinez.'

Again, I have no idea where you're getting this from post. The only compliment I've given to Chavez Jr is that he has a name.

In reality JCC Jr couldn't hold Sturm, Pirog, Golovkin jockstrap. I don't even think JCC Jr could beat Rubio TBH. So if you're a fan of the sport you should want the best vs the best not mismatches. Unless you're part of Martinez camp no reason you should be clamoring for this fight when there are tougher match ups in his own division.

I'm honestly not interested in a Pirog fight in the slightest. I don't think he's very good. I really want to see a Sturm fight, but there's not much Martinez can do about Sturm no wanting the fight. I would rather see him go down to jr middleweight or up to super middleweight. But at the moment, there's no point of Martinez moving up until the Super Six is settled.

But, then you can't knock JCC Jr for fight Cotto which is a bigger money fight especially since Martinez wants to fight Cotto as well.

I'm not knoking him for wanting a Cotto fight. I'm knocking him because Martinez is his mandatory and he's ducking him. If he doesn't want the pressure of people calling him for the belt, he could vacate and I won't hold anything against him.

[Kagami Taiga]

It isn't nearly as hypocritical as some of u make it seem. The fact is pirog isn't nearly as good as some of u make him seem. Honestly I don't think he's done **** to even be in the convo with Martinez. With that said I feel absolutely the same way about Chavez Jr. But Arum cannot argue that Martinez isn't built enough, its absolutely not true. That's just a dishonest statement. What Lou said about pirog on the other hand is absolutely true. He has zero name recognition, looked like **** in his last fight and made his name beating a prospect in Jacobs. **** he rarely fights on HBO or showtime.

With that said I would love to see both fights but when u have a situation when u have to choose between dog **** and cow ****, why not choose cow ****? At least u can make money off of it.

[Bushbaby]

I think Martinez should fight Pirog.Yes his team are doing to Pirog what Arums whole stable outside of Donaire.(He has the tools to smash anyone in any division he ventures).It is a little hypocritical.

Although I do understand where they are coming from.Martinez was an opponent up until he fought Dzinziruk.He bent to the Punisher's will,team Pavlik chose him,Arum thought it was a perfect cherrypick,didn't turn out that way.What I'm saying is Dibella knows he has a legitimate talented borderline star & he'd like to get him in the drivers seat for once or at least a fairly decent purse.

But honestly to compare the situation is like saying Dibella would be a petty thief in contrast to Arum being a full fledged murderer.See cause Martinez called out the big 3,all are or were champions at 154.The funny thing about that though is that the majority of boxing fans would prefer Cotto to be thrown under the bus.That makes me scratch my head.Cotto is the least great between himself,Floyd & Manny.But fans of Pacman especially simply say,"let Cotto fight him".