To Those Who Were Putting Juan Ma Over Cotto Already...

[Pullcounter]

You guys gotta know when Pull is just trying to get under your skin by now.

I laughed every time someone on the island who had a hard on for that flamboyant Tito wannabe said he had surpassed Cotto. The mere notion was laughable.

Lopez isn't, and never was that good. I've been saying this for years, this isn't just cause he just got ko'd. He doesn't know what a jab is, he is not a very sharp puncher, he's sloppy as all hell, and his power at 126 is slightly above average.

He's got a set of balls on him though, that's for sure. But if Lopez avoided exchanges and fought smartly he may have been able to recover and be competitive. But he makes Cotto look like Mayweather defensively and in terms of skill.

All the talk of Lopez going up to LW was insane.

Lopez ain't no Tito... Tito knew to throw a low blow when he needed to get out of a tough spot. Also tito packed a lot more power p4p at his weight than Lopez does. Power is a great equalizer.

[THe TRiNiTY]

The reason some fans and particularly Puerto Rican fans liked Lopez more at times is 4-fold.

1. Personality. Cotto isn't as bragadocious and he isn't as flamboyant. Some Puerto Ricans seem to prefer that type of guy. Nothing really wrong with it, but it's not who Miguel Cotto is. In general, a lot of fight fans prefer this type over the introvert.

2. Dominance. Cotto seemed like a guy that was bound to lose sooner. Lopez was in a less talented division at the time of Cotto's toughest fights. Now, the division is far more talented and it's far more noticeable. When Cotto finally lost, it only seemed to compound this point.

3. His ******ity. I like Lopez, but he can fight like a ****** fighter at times. You can use these "going out on his shield" bull****, but it's ******. You go in there to WIN. I like WINNERS. Some fight fans love these loser fighters that are willing to trade when it is least beneficial because it shows that they have balls. You want to know if he has balls, pull his pants down.

I like to root for fighters that will do what they have to do to WIN and to entertain. Not the other way around. Some fans don't get that and prefer the opposite. Fine by me, but don't expect me to understand it.

4. Cotto has less of the Puerto Rican style. He's not a really fast and slick guy and he doesn't have incredible power. He has heart and skill, and used a well-rounded game for his success. And people... get over the ****ing knee. You need proof of his heart, look no further than the Ricardo Torres fight.

Taking on all comers and a tough bastard in Antonio Margarito and trying to hold on to a lead in the fight isn't what a coward does. A coward doesn't take the fight. Cotto has heart and has shown such time and time again. Kids.....

[Mr. Fantastic]

I've been saying it all along, Lopez ain't got shit on Cotto.

[TintaBoricua]

He took a knee in one fight. SMH

He was hurt from Pacquaio since the 4th, and never took a knee.

And his stamina issues are completely overblown. Its quite rare that any fighter fights at the same intensity in round 12, that they're fighting in round 6. He kept his stamina up pretty well in nearly every one of his fights. He's not Manny Pacquaio in that department, but nobody is.

JuanMa is going 'out on his shield' because he doesn't know what the word defense is and he doesn't know how to box effectively. Going out on his shield is probably the ******est term in boxing

Exactly. I don't see all the hate Cotto gets for taking a knee. It wasn't like he took it for the heck of it. The guy was done. You could see it in his face (damage-wise, expression-wise), arms down, full-retreat. He was completely gassed out. Had he backed up into the corner and not taken the knee, who knows if he might've been taken unnecessary punishment and been unable to raise his arms and properly defend himself.

BTW, I give Margarito the benefit of the doubt, but I can agree with people looking at that fight as tainted. The "Kneeguel" moniker is ridiculous... :smh:

However, there's ONE thing I don't agree with in your second post, JmH, and it's that Salido is NOT a journeyman. A huge portion of his losses (6 of them) occured in the FIRST 15 fights of his career. He started boxing at age 15...15!

The guy beat Robert Guerrero (changed to No Contest because of a failed drug test), though I seriously doubt it played a MAJOR role. But whatever, let's discard this.

He took on Gamboa and knocked him down first and made it to the final bell. It's not like Gamboa was completely comfortable in there with him. The guy doesn't come to collect paychecks, he comes to fight. All credit to him!

I agree with the points you made on Cotto, but Salido is not a journeyman.

EDIT: Pullcounter is shoulder-rolling the **** out of everyone.

[TintaBoricua]

You're leaving probably the most important thing out of your little scenerio.
David had God on his corner who was speaking to him directly telling exactly what to do. Had he not had God speaking to him do you really thing he would have shown up with just a slingshot?

This is an example of your misguided idea of what bravery is.
Showing up at Irag with a *** the koran tshirt on your chest and a BB gun. Would you say that's brave? It is after all knowing your flaws and maximixing your risk.

Oh, my God! LMFAO! :rof:

That's it! I'm 5-starring this thread! This had me rolling!

[JmH Reborn]

Exactly. I don't see all the hate Cotto gets for taking a knee. It wasn't like he took it for the heck of it. The guy was done. You could see it in his face (damage-wise, expression-wise), arms down, full-retreat. He was completely gassed out. Had he backed up into the corner and not taken the knee, who knows if he might've been taken unnecessary punishment and been unable to raise his arms and properly defend himself.

BTW, I give Margarito the benefit of the doubt, but I can agree with people looking at that fight as tainted. The "Kneeguel" moniker is ridiculous... :smh:

I give Margarito the benefit of the doubt, only because that fight is one of the best fight in the last 10 years and I don't want it tainted, although I have su****ions like anyone else. That fight made me a fan of Margarito and I just hope he was clean.

However, there's ONE thing I don't agree with in your second post, JmH, and it's that Salido is NOT a journeyman. A huge portion of his losses (6 of them) occured in the FIRST 15 fights of his career. He started boxing at age 15...15!

Salido is a journeyman, but that is not necessarily a bad thing. He is a good fighter, but he'll never be in that upper tier of guys. Nothing wrong with that. He puts on a good showing and that's all you can ask of a performer. He's got a workman like work-ethic and that's ok. He had his IBF strap, but we'll never confuse him with the elite fighters. He's a gatekeeper/journeyman and I think for most people, that signifies that at one point you were really good and still provide a good test to the young guys, and ultimately, means you've had a quality career.

EDIT: Pullcounter is shoulder-rolling the **** out of everyone.

Pull has just been trolling, but I've seen his game/approach. Its all in good fun, although his disdain for Cotto is creepy and irrational.

[TintaBoricua]

I give Margarito the benefit of the doubt, only because that fight is one of the best fight in the last 10 years and I don't want it tainted, although I have su****ions like anyone else. That fight made me a fan of Margarito and I just hope he was clean.



Salido is a journeyman, but that is not necessarily a bad thing. He is a good fighter, but he'll never be in that upper tier of guys. Nothing wrong with that. He puts on a good showing and that's all you can ask of a performer. He's got a workman like work-ethic and that's ok. He had his IBF strap, but we'll never confuse him with the elite fighters. He's a gatekeeper/journeyman and I think for most people, that signifies that at one point you were really good and still provide a good test to the young guys, and ultimately, means you've had a quality career.


Pull has just been trolling, but I've seen his game/approach. Its all in good fun, although his disdain for Cotto is creepy and irrational.

That's exactly how I see Salido. A tough guy who always comes to fight, will never be a superstar or elite, but he gives any person coming up hell.

Oh, and I agree with you wholeheartedly on the Cotto-Margarito fight. I really hope it's not tainted because that fight IS one of the best fights I've ever seen. To see it turned around and the power punches landed is something spectacular...and after I was through grieving Cotto's loss that night, I became a supporter of Margarito...then the whole plaster issue started...but that's another story.

[BxFanViento]

Cotto was always better

I Like JuanMa but he is not even close to Cotto's level and he may never reach Cotto's level.

Juanma should look at this loss as a reminder that he is a human being and things like saturday night will and can happen and if he is not careful the same thing(Salido KO win) will happen in the rematch.


One can imagine if you will what would have happend had Cotto not lost to Margarito (plaster of paris non withstanding) I can actually can still see floyd retiring and imagine either a Cotto vs Pacquiao fight in December 08 or January 09 or hell even a Cotto/Hoya fight.

wow it's those tiny little details that can change the course of history

[Unknown Champ]

it means that cotto is aware of his flaws and tries to minimize risks, hence less brave.

You are a god damn hater pal. Period.

[Pullcounter]

You are a god damn hater pal. Period.

how am I hating?

cotto is just as flawed as juanma is, both in his own way