Shaver's Punching Power Is Completely Overrated.

[nomadman]

You found single examples of lots of different fighters with one punch KO's to argue that Shavers couldn't do that. Well, here's one of Shavers few available fights also showing a one punch KO, albeit this is against a top fighter desperately determined not to lose and to get up, but can't.



See, we can all play that game? Find a rare one punch KO and use it to pretend someone wasn't a KO puncher.

Huh? What game? The Ellis KO is a plus to Shavers's rep, not something to criticise him for. And had he gotten a few more of those in his career then we wouldn't be having this conversation.

You seem smart enough not to fall into that NSB type argument, but it's pretty easy to do this with every ATG puncher.

No fighter, ever, has consistently produced one punch KO's. No one.

Sorry, but where are you getting this from? I never said this at all.

The guy I would truly rate as probably the hardest single puncher is just another classic example of what you're arguing against. He hurts lots and lots and lots of guys with one punch (which is, to me anyway, the definition of one punch power), a bit like Shavers, and he certainly produced some amazing single punch KO's and I think probably more than anyone but most still came after hurting the guy first, then putting him away with a barrage. No one does what you want and argue Shavers should do. Once again, even with Jackson, we have every one of his greatest single punch KOs against the best fighter and the worst. If he fought forty years we'd probably only have his biggest fights and maybe we'd have one or two of his single punch KO's.

I've seen most of Jackson's major fights and believe his reputation to be justified. Yes, he hurt a lot of opponent; he also knocked a lot of guys out cold, including a legendary one punch turnaround against Herol Graham. Shavers never had anything like that, though he's often referred to as "the heavyweight Julian Jackson." He never even knocked a guy unconscious that I recall; very badly hurt and loopy, but not stone cold unmoving lights out unconscious.

I'm not asking him to have done it in every single fight. Nor am I asking him to have KOed everyone with one shot (no idea where you got that).

What I am asking is that he (or rather those arguing in favour of him in this thread) justify his reputation in the same way as everyone else, guys like Tyson, Wlad, Lennox who do have those sorts of KOs but are considered beneath Shavers in the power punching stakes.

[Trenchant]

Shaver's Punching Power is not overrated. 1 punch ko's? I'm sure he had alot but they were not all available on video. His power was incredible his STAMINA was suspect, END OF STORY. He almost always punched himself out after trying to get rid of the guy after hurting him because he was not that accurate and would get punched out. His Punching power was tremendous, he would have KO'd Ron Lyle if he hadnt hurt him at the end of the round, he had him done, I mean DONE! His power was awesome, he truly is one of the hardest punchers ever. Lennox Lewis? Awesome fighter but not really a knock out artist, he doesn't have many 1 punch ko's. Rahman in the second fight, killer right left combo, that's 2 punches. Tyson, definitely not a 1 punch knockout, Tyson accumulated alot of punishment first. Botha got hit by like a 5 punch combo. Briggs kept getting up. Golota took a few before going down, Tyson F'd him up worse. Lewis was great but in combinations.
If Shavers would have learned to concentrate and relax after getting his opponent hurt, he would have been a much better fighter and probably Heavyweight champ.

[nomadman]

You can't judge punching power by the number of one punch knock outs because a fighter with quicker hand speed will land more of his punches.

No, but it counts for a lot, especially if you do it more than a few times.

A boxer with slower hand speed may throw a lot of punches that miss but would knockout opponents if they landed.

True. But that doesn't really apply to Shavers since he was neither particularly slow nor clumsy, at least compared to someone like Foreman.

[NoLove]

If Ali said it it must be true.

[nomadman]

Lennox Lewis? Awesome fighter but not really a knock out artist, he doesn't have many 1 punch ko's.

Rahman in the second fight, killer right left combo, that's 2 punches.

One two, whatever. The first punch was negligible. It was the right that did the damage.

I'd give the same leeway to Shavers if he'd have been in Lennox's place.

How many 1 punch ko's does he have by the way? Ones you've seen I mean?

Tyson, definitely not a 1 punch knockout, Tyson accumulated alot of punishment first. Botha got hit by like a 5 punch combo. Briggs kept getting up.

What five punch combo?



That's a one punch knockout right there, and it came after four and a half rounds of being smothered and dominated by Botha. That's about the worst fight you could pick to illustrate Tyson's lack of one punch power.

And when did he ever fight Briggs?

[GoogleMe]

Shavers is SO slow, he couldn't hit anything...

[MARKBNLV]

Shannon Briggs is less brain damaged than Muhammad Ali. And he said Vitali punched harder than Foreman and Lennox.

I'll take his opinion over a Parkinsons ridden Ali.

He was embarrassed and wanted to save face.

[BennyST]

What I am asking is that he (or rather those arguing in favour of him in this thread) justify his reputation in the same way as everyone else, guys like Tyson, Wlad, Lennox who do have those sorts of KOs but are considered beneath Shavers in the power punching stakes.

Ok, let's forget everything so far and start again. Good posts Btw, in general anyway (), but this is just what I sent an entire goddamned essay on. We have every single one of these guys fights on video, so we have seen all of their fights, from their debuts to their last pro fight. Shavers doesn't have even half his fights available on film, so we haven't seen the majority of his knock outs.

Do you see what I'm trying to say? People keep on comparing to current guys and saying, "He only knocked out Ellis with one punch while Lewis knocked out three guys, and Wlad is amazing and pretty, while Tyson has lots too". We have all of their best KOs on film ready to be seen because people have made highlights of their best KOs throughout an entire career.

If you get me every single Shavers film, and his only one punch KO is Ellis, then I'll concede that there are quite a few bigger punchers at HW. As it stands now, he's up among the very best for me, because of what I have seen he was able to consistently hurt or drop the very best fighters in the world, often more so than anyone else, all the while piling up early KOs, not TKOs, on all the trash he fought. The vid of Tua shows all the trash he fought. We have none of those fights for Shavers.

Dig?

[BennyST]

I'd give the same leeway to Shavers if he'd have been in Lennox's place.

How many 1 punch ko's does he have by the way? Ones you've seen I mean?

See what I mean? You keep talking and comparing him with guys of whom you've seen every fight. We have all seen all their fights because they are current championship level fighters with every single match on TV and recorded, not lesser known contenders from 40 years ago.

If Lewis was from 40 years ago and not as good as he was, we'd have very, very few of his fights. We'd only have his biggest, toughest fights and he didn't score very many one punch KO's in those.

So we could not say at all whether Lewis was any good. In fact, from his record we'd say that he wasn't a great KO artist. Just good. Majority came via TKO, not KO.

[Derranged]

As for Shannon saying that Vitali hit harder than Foreman.. Foreman was 49 when he fought him, I would think much of his power dissipated, no?