Shaver's Punching Power Is Completely Overrated.

[B.U.R.N.E.R]

Yup I agree.


On that note Roy Jones speed was overrated.

[King Ghidorah]

he wouldn't be an inch taller but he might weight more if he lifted weights. As far as im concerned that doesn't really benefit boxing though. The explosive training would though, might offer him better hand speed.

Hw's aren't bigger now, they are either fatter or lift weights to get big. Norton was damn near 230 lbs of pure muscle and 0 fat by the end of his career, and that was the worst he had ever looked. Same goes for Holyfield. When he jacked up he got tired quicker and he was slower.

speaking of which, David Haye was only 212 lbs on fight night, and he took wlads punches in stride. Whats worse is David Haye doesn't even have a good chin.

But you agree that id they had the same resources today they'd be on par or even better than the guys today.....

Joe Louis destroyed guys in Primo Convera and Maxe Baer who are bigger and more gifted physically than the Klitchkos

[nomadman]

one punch KO power is as much as it is accuracy and speed than actual power. go get in the ring yourself before throwing ignorant facts out there. Tyson was very fast and caught people on the chin. Couple that with good punching power and you have yourself a KO artist.

But that's just it. Power is a combination of all these things, not just one factor. If you use speed, explosiveness, technique, accuracy etc to knock people out then why shouldn't you be considered a big puncher? Talking about "punching power" as if it's a separate entity is meaningless, IMO. Without at least some modicum of the above qualities, all you're really left with is raw strength, and there are plenty of physically powerful guys out there who can't punch worth a damn.

Much is made of Shavers lack of speed and technique. He was pretty crude compared to some of his opponents, but he wasn't slow, nor did he lack for explosiveness or accuracy, at least in the early rounds. In the vast majority of his wins he was catching the guy about as flush as possible with his full weight behind the shot. It wasn't as if he was just randomly swinging his arms around in slow motion, clips a guy on the ear and they get KTFO. Had he actually done that I doubt I'd be having this conversation with you. But the fact that he caught plenty of guys about as flush as possible with his best shots and they weren't immediately dropped to the ground like a sack of spuds and staying there has to lead me to questioning his one punch power, which is after all what he's renowned for, and what this thread is about.

Foreman in the 90's was said to have hit everyone the hardest yet he was so slow he couldn't catch anyone on the chin clean. On top of that, foreman in his old age only really threw short arm punches because he was so slow. In his prime he sat down on them.

Comeback Foreman actually caught quite a few fighters clean. He caught Morrison more than a few times with his short right, as well as, I think, Axel Schulz (though I may be mistaken on that one as I haven't watched it for a while). He also caught Moorer a few times before the KO. Foreman in his comeback still possessed really heavy hands, but I wouldn't call him the hardest puncher of the nineties, not with guys like Lennox, Tyson and Tua around.

Briggs was just saying that because he suffered a huge beating after talking so much ****. Doesn't change the fact that he ran from and old George in his prime, scared ****less every time he received a blow.

You could say that, but neither you nor I can know for certain. Since he hasn't retracted his words, despite having had the opportunity to do so several times since that fight, then it's unfair not to take him at his word. People on here have routinely referenced Ali's and Holmes's words regarding their experiences in the ring, yet when it comes to a relatively minor fighter like Briggs suddenly his word is being questioned, as though what you have or haven't accomplished in the ring is somehow commensurate with your ability to tell the truth. If you're going to question someone do so on the basis of their background and their personal integrity, not on the people they've punched out in their lifetimes.

[New England]

Shannon Briggs is less brain damaged than Muhammad Ali. And he said Vitali punched harder than Foreman and Lennox.

I'll take his opinion over a Parkinsons ridden Ali.

go to hell


it's a good thing you didn't post this in the history section where it belongs

because there's bulldogs in there
and we'd eat you for lunch ^^


Shavers "couldn't finish a man" just ****** on him?
how about the 69 guys he knocked out?

and as for his opponents, like holmes, norton, ali, etc
who have faced a slew of some of the best punchers ever, including foreman and tyson, the other two men oft mentioned in the discussion of hardest punchers ever

they must be wrong when they say that shavers is the hardest puncher they have ever faced
or they're just lying


you're right tho bro
the consensus top 3 hardest puncher ever in shavers is actually a featherfister
you're so right
and they (the champs included) are all wrong.

[New England]

But you agree that id they had the same resources today they'd be on par or even better than the guys today.....

Joe Louis destroyed guys in Primo Convera and Maxe Baer who are bigger and more gifted physically than the Klitchkos

arrrrrghghghghhhhh


that's the sound of me dying a little inside

[Phil Ivey]

*******s never ceases to amaze me... I can see the next thread coming 'Prime RJJ speed is completely overrated'.

[TheGreatA]

Holmes age shouldn't be brought up here, considering how long he went on to keep fighting for at a high level, and especially if you're going to bring up the Ali that fought Shavers.

The fact that Shavers dropped Holmes is impressive, but then so is the fact that Tyson KOed him. Yet for some reason the knockdown is held in higher regard than the actual knockout, despite Tyson landing an almost identical looking overhand right to the one that Shavers used to also drop Holmes. If we're measuring just power here, then you've got to say that Tyson's was at least comparable to Shaver's, given the similarity of both knockdowns. The follow up barrage that Tyson used to KO Holmes could fall into the realm of combination punching, finishing ability etc, but not that first knockdown.

The Holmes of 1988 was not the Holmes of 1979, much like the Briggs of 2010 was not the Briggs of 1998. Many believe that a prime Holmes would not only survive Tyson's power, but beat him. Old Larry could still befuddle a few crude brawlers but it's a bit too much to ask of him to beat a peak Mike Tyson.

The difference here is the finishing job:



2:20



Shavers's knockdown seems the single hardest punch. Not that I'd have much separating the two as punchers because both could knock people out if they landed right. Tyson just had better delivery and overall ability.

Supposing he had, in fact, knocked out both those fighters then I'd have had no hesitation in calling him one of the hardest punchers who ever lived. But he didn't so it's merely a supposition. But as for being close to doing so, in Holmes's case he got to his feet almost immediately and went on to dominate the rest of the fight. It wasn't a flash knockdown or anything of the sort, but it wasn't like Holmes was totally out of it either. Hurt and wobbly yes, but not at death's door. Against Ali, sure he rocked Ali a few times, but it was a way past his prime and faded Ali, as evidenced by the fact that he lost his very next fight against Spinks and two more after that.

In that case I would have no hesitation calling him, without a doubt, the hardest puncher who ever lived considering the calibre of Ali and Holmes and their proven durability. I don't believe that there is a single puncher in history who could have KO'd both Ali and Holmes.

Ali had considerably more left in the tank in the Shavers fight than the Spinks fight. It's after the fight with Shavers when Ferdie Pacheco advised Ali to retire for medical reasons. He took a beating despite winning the decision.

[JOM'S]

Ali and Holmes both said Shavers hit the hardest, and collectively those two fought Liston, Foreman, Tyson, Frazier, and Holyfield.

This is just about right...

[D-MiZe]

It frustrates me that 30 years on people don't have a clue and instead of asking someone knowledgeable, they just make up their own opinion based on nothing.

This site has turned to shit as well, so many alts on here. If anyone posts their honest opinion they get ridiculed by posters who hide behind an alt.

[nomadman]

The Holmes of 1988 was not the Holmes of 1979, much like the Briggs of 2010 was not the Briggs of 1998.

And the Ali of 1977 was not the Ali of 1966 who was knocked down by Cooper. His legs were gone and he was taking punches much flusher than in the past. Shavers didn't age Ali so much as make obvious what most already knew. Holmes may have been a bit fat and rusty when he got KOed by Tyson but he was nowhere near as gone as Ali was at that stage. The fact that he fought on well into the nineties, beating Mercer and narrowly losing to McCall in a close fight that went the distance, should prove that, as should the fact that he was never ever stopped again.

Many believe that a prime Holmes would not only survive Tyson's power, but beat him. Old Larry could still befuddle a few crude brawlers but it's a bit too much to ask of him to beat a peak Mike Tyson.

Shavers's knockdown seems the single hardest punch. Not that I'd have much separating the two as punchers because both could knock people out if they landed right. Tyson just had better delivery and overall ability.

They were both damn hard punches to have dropped Holmes like that in the first place. My main beef here is that Shavers's knockdown is hailed to the high hills whilst Tyson's knockdown is glossed over or marginalised by Holmes's age. It's a bit of a double standard really, and it irritates me. That's all.

In that case I would have no hesitation calling him, without a doubt, the hardest puncher who ever lived considering the calibre of Ali and Holmes and their proven durability. I don't believe that there is a single puncher in history who could have KO'd both Ali and Holmes.

You're free to do that, but just once I'd like to see an argument made for Shavers that doesn't include what other fighters have to say about him. Fighters whom he lost to.