Comments Thread For: Marquez Eyes Judah, But Won't Rule Out Manny Pacquiao

[Illdil]

I guess you never saw the Pacquaio vs. Hatton fight, or the second round when Pac's perfectly timed counter flattened him...

like i told u he is trying to figure out why pacquiao is superhuman and the GOAT ...let the guy find it out for himself i wish the best HAHAHAHAHA

[Lorily]

How is Pac's skill level different? Hell, go back and check the tape. Freddie Roach claimed this great "transformation" from Pac being a one dimensional fighter happen after he lost his first fight with a washed up Morales. Pac just hasn't been up against any resistance and been fighting lesser fighters. Hell, IMO he's even lost a step because there no reason for him to be as hittable as he's been against guys who he's 10x faster than. As for him being faster, I don't see it. I don't think he's lost any speed, which is what makes him great. But he appears to be faster because he's fighting against slower guys than he did at the lower weights. And naturally yes, he's probably hitting harder as a bigger guy, I'll conceed that. I don't think I ever said once that I think JMM would beat him. I just don't think he'll be blown out like your kind seems to believe. I think the fight would resemble Pacquaio-Morales II.

The reason Pacquiao IS so hittable is because he is willing to actually open up in there to make an exciting fight. He could do the hit and hold or run around the ring routine that some other fighters do if he wanted to, but he doesn't because he actually wants to entertain his fans. I'm not saying he WANTS to get hit, but I am saying that he is WILLING to get hit, in order to make it a good fight. That doesn't mean he's "lost a step", he's always been willing to take a couple of punches in order to give 5 or 6 back in an exchange. That's what makes people really want to watch him.

And as far as "Pac just hasn't been up against any resistance and been fighting lesser fighters", I think that is exagerating it just a bit really. You gotta remember who the critics and a large number of fans thought would win going in to the fight with both ODLH and Cotto. Those weren't "gimme" fights. There's no way in the world that Pac or Roach could have known that Oscar was going to come in to the ring a walking dead man. Oscar did that to HIMSELF. And as far as Cotto goes, even though he got beat down against Margarito, people still thought Cotto was too big and too strong for Manny. Hell, if you watch the first 4 rounds of Pac vs Cotto, Miguel was doing a subperb job of outboxing Pac. He just couldn't keep up the pace of what it would have taken to beat Pacquiao, and I also think he was surprised that Manny didn't fold after hitting him with his best shots.

Side note: I'm not defending all of Arums choices for Pacquiaos opponents, I'm certain there were probably better opponents that could have been picked. But I think it's crazy that some people don't want to give even the slightest bit of credit to Manny, for fights that on paper sounded a whole lot worse then they actually were in the ring. All of Pacquiaos fights (except for Clottey) were all entertaining, and again - there's no way anyone could have known that Clottey would choose not to fight back, well except for a few conspiracy theorists that is.

[Illdil]

I agree. Either or both of those fights would be great fights. I say skip the Guerrero fight though, there's nothing in it for JMM except more wear and tear.


Neither IMO. GBP can't guarantee a fight with Pac and TR is wrong for making fighters leave their stable for a shot at his fighters. I think he should go it on his own and contract out for 1 fight at a time because his name is still relevant and a lot of fighters still want to fight him.



That's not true. Juan felt that Khan was trying to use him as a stepping stone when Team Khan offered him a pittance of money compared to what Juan is worth. When Juan didn't go for it , Team Khan used the usual "He priced himself out" line they always use - TWICE. JMM made millions against FMJ and Khan only wanted to give Juan a ridiculous amount (something like $500k I believe) of money in order to keep his own guaranteed million +. Khan has done NOTHING in comparison to JMM so far in this fight game, yet he acted like he was doing Juan a favor by offering him a fight for peanuts compared to what he would have made for himself. I'm sure it was an insult to JMM, and I think that was a legitimate reason for him not taking that fight in this situation. Personally, I'd love to see that fight.

Great post

[Illdil]

The reason Pacquiao IS so hittable is because he is willing to actually open up in there to make an exciting fight. He could do the hit and hold or run around the ring routine that some other fighters do if he wanted to, but he doesn't because he actually wants to entertain his fans. I'm not saying he WANTS to get hit, but I am saying that he is WILLING to get hit, in order to make it a good fight. That doesn't mean he's "lost a step", he's always been willing to take a couple of punches in order to give 5 or 6 back in an exchange. That's what makes people really want to watch him.

And as far as "Pac just hasn't been up against any resistance and been fighting lesser fighters", I think that is exagerating it just a bit really. You gotta remember who the critics and a large number of fans thought would win going in to the fight with both ODLH and Cotto. Those weren't "gimme" fights. There's no way in the world that Pac or Roach could have known that Oscar was going to come in to the ring a walking dead man. Oscar did that to HIMSELF. And as far as Cotto goes, even though he got beat down against Margarito, people still thought Cotto was too big and too strong for Manny. Hell, if you watch the first 4 rounds of Pac vs Cotto, Miguel was doing a subperb job of outboxing Pac. He just couldn't keep up the pace of what it would have taken to beat Pacquiao, and I also think he was surprised that Manny didn't fold after hitting him with his best shots.

Side note: I'm not defending all of Arums choices for Pacquiaos opponents, I'm certain there were probably better opponents that could have been picked. But I think it's crazy that some people don't want to give even the slightest bit of credit to Manny, for fights that on paper sounded a whole lot worse then they actually were in the ring. All of Pacquiaos fights (except for Clottey) were all entertaining, and again - there's no way anyone could have known that Clottey would choose not to fight back, well except for a few conspiracy theorists that is.

exacty i would rather seen manny fight Berto or JMM than margarito but even that fight was entertaining for the first half and still margarito is no walk over...i still think Berto will b manny's next opponent given he gets thru mosley and that would b one explosive fight

[SluggerFan]

I'm not basing my stance on the Pacquaio-Morales trilogy on "one bad performance." I'm basing my opinion on Morales being in the middle of a 1-5 string where he was not only losing to the best in the division. But, he was also losing to much lesser fighters. No matter how much spin in put on it, Morales not only loss, but was humiliated by Zahir Raheem in his fight following his win over Pac. Rahemm was no better than a C level fighter his entire career. And following his rubbermatch with Pac, he lost to David Diaz. What am I supposed to think? OK, since Pac is supposed the be the greatest fighter ever, I'm gonna disregard Morales losing to piss-poor competition simply to support my illusion that Pac is superhuman? That's not logical homie.

What's not logical is the fact because a fighter lost to a C level fighter after fighting wars with everyone before hand, he was shot a fight earlier than that. I guess you don't consider Barrera one of the best Mexican fighters of that era, or otherwise, you wouldn't believe this nonsense. Did it ever occur to you that the first Pacquiao fight took every last ounce of will and effort out of Morales? He lost twice to a first ballot hall of hamer in Barrera and beat him once. The third fight was super close and could have been scored a draw (they virtually fought even up for 36 rounds, with maybe a couple round edge to Barrera). Then he steps up to Pacquiao and wins the fight going toe to toe with a completely fearless foe and you say he is washed up? That is what is not logical. You say a five string fight where he lost to Raheem, Pacquiao twice and David Diaz. That's where he showed he wasn't what he was before. Did he look absolutely terrible and shot against Barrera all three times and the first Pacquiao fight. No, all those fights were wars and they were all close, and that's against two future first ballot hall of famers.

Sorry, Morales last great fight was against Pacquiao and he wasn't washed up. I won't argue that he didn't have it after that but Morales was still peaking before he lost to Raheem! I will never agree with you on this so we might as well stop but I do know this. I just know I just rewatched that fight (Pac vs Morales I) since HBO's been showing it to hype the crappy PPV this weekend and my first thought after the 7th round was "Morales never looked like this again!" And he didn't but he fought a great fight that night...

[SluggerFan]

like i told u he is trying to figure out why pacquiao is superhuman and the GOAT ...let the guy find it out for himself i wish the best HAHAHAHAHA

Just because I proved the idiot wrong doesn't mean I am a Pacquiao freak, you moron....

[Illdil]

What's not logical is the fact because a fighter lost to a C level fighter after fighting wars with everyone before hand, he was shot a fight earlier than that. I guess you don't consider Barrera one of the best Mexican fighters of that era, or otherwise, you wouldn't believe this nonsense. Did it ever occur to you that the first Pacquiao fight took every last ounce of will and effort out of Morales? He lost twice to a first ballot hall of hamer in Barrera and beat him once. The third fight was super close and could have been scored a draw (they virtually fought even up for 36 rounds, with maybe a couple round edge to Barrera). Then he steps up to Pacquiao and wins the fight going toe to toe with a completely fearless foe and you say he is washed up? That is what is not logical. You say a five string fight where he lost to Raheem, Pacquiao twice and David Diaz. That's where he showed he wasn't what he was before. Did he look absolutely terrible and shot against Barrera all three times and the first Pacquiao fight. No, all those fights were wars and they were all close, and that's against two future first ballot hall of famers.

Sorry, Morales last great fight was against Pacquiao and he wasn't washed up. I won't argue that he didn't have it after that but Morales was still peaking before he lost to Raheem! I will never agree with you on this so we might as well stop but I do know this. I just know I just rewatched that fight (Pac vs Morales I) since HBO's been showing it to hype the crappy PPV this weekend and my first thought after the 7th round was "Morales never looked like this again!" And he didn't but he fought a great fight that night...

This reminds me of people saying evander was completely SHOT fighting mike when evander was still a great fighter

[SluggerFan]

The reason Pacquiao IS so hittable is because he is willing to actually open up in there to make an exciting fight. He could do the hit and hold or run around the ring routine that some other fighters do if he wanted to, but he doesn't because he actually wants to entertain his fans. I'm not saying he WANTS to get hit, but I am saying that he is WILLING to get hit, in order to make it a good fight. That doesn't mean he's "lost a step", he's always been willing to take a couple of punches in order to give 5 or 6 back in an exchange. That's what makes people really want to watch him.

And as far as "Pac just hasn't been up against any resistance and been fighting lesser fighters", I think that is exagerating it just a bit really. You gotta remember who the critics and a large number of fans thought would win going in to the fight with both ODLH and Cotto. Those weren't "gimme" fights. There's no way in the world that Pac or Roach could have known that Oscar was going to come in to the ring a walking dead man. Oscar did that to HIMSELF. And as far as Cotto goes, even though he got beat down against Margarito, people still thought Cotto was too big and too strong for Manny. Hell, if you watch the first 4 rounds of Pac vs Cotto, Miguel was doing a subperb job of outboxing Pac. He just couldn't keep up the pace of what it would have taken to beat Pacquiao, and I also think he was surprised that Manny didn't fold after hitting him with his best shots.

Side note: I'm not defending all of Arums choices for Pacquiaos opponents, I'm certain there were probably better opponents that could have been picked. But I think it's crazy that some people don't want to give even the slightest bit of credit to Manny, for fights that on paper sounded a whole lot worse then they actually were in the ring. All of Pacquiaos fights (except for Clottey) were all entertaining, and again - there's no way anyone could have known that Clottey would choose not to fight back, well except for a few conspiracy theorists that is.

See, I agree with this wholeheartedly. Too bad people won't see this as an unbiased view but perceive it that you think Pacquiao is superhuman. Even though you don't agree with the last couple fight choices of Pacquiao (and neither do I), nobody will look at that. They will look at you as a Pac freak. But, hey, at least me and you know better...

[Illdil]

Just because I proved the idiot wrong doesn't mean I am a Pacquiao freak, you moron....

i was being sarcatic bro cuz the dude mentioned it on hes post that PAC was GOAT was superhuman HAHHAHA thats it

[SluggerFan]

i was being sarcatic bro cuz the dude mentioned it on hes post that PAC was GOAT was superhuman HAHHAHA thats it

Oh man, sorry bud. I mistook that as a slam. I just had to mention it because that was the perfect counter shot, just like Mayweather's was against Hatton as well...

exacty i would rather seen manny fight Berto or JMM than margarito but even that fight was entertaining for the first half and still margarito is no walk over...i still think Berto will b manny's next opponent given he gets thru mosley and that would b one explosive fight

Berto really is the only fight out there for Pacquiao other than JMM, who looks to leaning to stay with GBP. And that fight is possible because Berto isn't with GBP. I am hoping that is the fight for Pac after Mosley if he beats Mosley and Berto beats Ortiz (which I think both will win). The best part is if Pacquiao beats Mosley, Arum has no more fighters for him to fight. So he will be forced to fight Berto or Bradley (if Bradley beats Amir if they fight) which will give us a new breath of fresh air...

Again, sorry for taking your response the wrong way. Oh, and regarding Holyfield vs. Tyson, I agree on that as well. As I was saying, Holyfield's last great fight was the Michael Moorer rematch. After that, against Vaughn Bean, Lewis and Ruiz, he started to show his slide was consistant and he would never be what he was before. Morales showed the same thing AFTER the first Pacquiao fight...