Is it just me...or does the super six mean nothing now?

[Steak]

Um, what? as long as top fights are being made because of the tourney, then hell yes it means something.

not to mention the two best of the group, Ward and Froch, are still going to end up fighting.

I didnt really give a damn about the tourney, but I loved the matchups it created. and I still do.

think about it. from this tourney we got Kessler-Ward, Abraham-Dirrell, Abraham-Taylor, Dirrel-Froch, Froch-Abraham, Bika-Ward, Green-Ward, and Green-Glen Johnson.
and in the future we have Froch-Johnson and Ward-Abraham.
and then the winner of those.
HOLY ****.

thats just outstanding, if youre a boxing fan then you HAVE to have loved this tourney.

[damned1974]

Bute would have had to cancel his rematch with Andrade in order to get in, and that was out of the question because he needed to prove a point against Andrade. And he is currently ranked #2 in every credible independent rankings other than boxrec, which still ranks him #1. The Ring, boxingscene, espn, yahoo, all rank Bute #2. The only way Froch can overtake him now is if he either beat Wards or beats Bute (unless Bute loses to someone).

Perhaps you can clue me in and make me a believer,but what has Bute achieved and who the hell has he fought to earn a higher rank than someone who has actually done the hard yards? Bute is over-rated in most sources... you can parrot what the Ring,BS,ESPN,etc have him ranked,but why is he there as opposed to someone who is actually proven to beat better opposition?

[Drunk Punch]

I think Bute has a false ranking. He hasn't beaten anyone in the top five SMWs, so how can he rank higher than Froch or Ward?

[Dave Rado]

The format was too long and too many fighters, resulting in too many drop outs. Next time just 4 guys like the BWs.

The problem with that format is that styles make fights. If there had been a Heavyweight tourney with that format in the 70s, Ali would have been knocked out of the tournament by Frazier in the first round.

The current format has meant that the top fighters in the division have all been regularly fighting other top fighters in their division over a long period, which is what should always happen in boxing, but it hasn't happened since the early 1980s. It's something to celebrate, and what's gone wrong doesn't even compare with what's gone right.

[damned1974]

I think Bute has a false ranking. He hasn't beaten anyone in the top five SMWs, so how can he rank higher than Froch or Ward?

I agree...sometimes the best judge is a coherent boxing fan,because these rankings seem to be chosen out of thin air. When Bute fights consistent top quality opposition,I will give him props,but until then,his ranking is undeserved and should be allocated to a fighter who actually is doing something (I'm not a Froch fan either,but I respect that he is fighting the best available competition instead of the Magee's and Brinkley's in the division).

[Dave Rado]

Perhaps you can clue me in and make me a believer,but what has Bute achieved and who the hell has he fought to earn a higher rank than someone who has actually done the hard yards? Bute is over-rated in most sources... you can parrot what the Ring,BS,ESPN,etc have him ranked,but why is he there as opposed to someone who is actually proven to beat better opposition?

Before the tournament started Bute was ranked higher than all but Kessler, based partly on who he fought and partly on how he looked against them. He was frozen out of the tournament, which is not his fault, and therefore as long as he keeps winning and doesn't fight total bums (and he hasn't been, his last three opponents were all reasonable ones given that the top fighters were in the Super Six) - he'll keep his ranking until the Super Six winner fights him. Then we'll see who's best. In the meantime, the sheer dominance of his last three wins, and the sheer class he showed in them, against credible opposition, leads many boxing experts to think that he may well be better than Ward and almost all of them consider that he's far better than Froch.

What should have happened is that Showtime should have reserved a place for the Bute-Andrade winner, and excluded Taylor. But they didn't, and that isn't Bute's fault. The rankings all take into account the fact that he did not turn Showtime down, they turned him down.

[Dave Rado]

(I'm not a Froch fan either,but I respect that he is fighting the best available competition instead of the Magee's and Brinkley's in the division).

How can Bute fight the fighters in the Super Six when they're in the Super Six and he was excluded from it??????

[damned1974]

Before the tournament started Bute was ranked higher than all but Kessler, based partly on who he fought and partly on how he looked against them. He was frozen out of the tournament, which is not his fault, and therefore as long as he keeps winning and doesn't fight total bums (and he hasn't been, his last three opponents were all reasonable ones given that the top fighters were in the Super Six) - he'll keep his ranking until the Super Six winner fights him. Then we'll see who's best. In the meantime, the sheer dominance of his last three wins, and the sheer class he showed in them, against credible opposition, leads many boxing experts to think that he may well be better than Ward and almost all of them consider that he's far better than Froch.

What should have happened is that Showtime should have reserved a place for the Bute-Andrade winner, and excluded Taylor. But they didn't, and that isn't Bute's fault. The rankings all take into account the fact that he did not turn Showtime down, they turned him down.

I agree with what you later stated.I didn't believe Taylor should have been in it from the get go.Bute would have been a good option,but it hasn't happened.Oddly enough,he has recently signed with Showtime when he should have pushed for it before Glen Johnson or Allan Green were brought in,and to be honest,they should have included him long ago.

Now saying all of this....nothing he has done to date suggests he should earn a #2 spot.

[Dave Rado]

Now saying all of this....nothing he has done to date suggests he should earn a #2 spot.

He was universally ranked #2 before the tournament started. He has done nothing since then to lose his spot, given that he was frozen out of the tournament. Obviously the people who are in the tournament are fighting better fighters than he is but that isn't his fault, that is simply because he was frozen out of the tournament. When the tournament started everyone said that no one could claim the be the undisputed champion without beating Bute, and he has done nothing since then to change that.

As long as the Super Six winner fights Bute, there's no problem, we'll know who is best as soon as that fight takes place. Unless you are saying you would actually rather they didn't fight each other (which would be an insane position to take), then I don't see what the problem is. We'll find out who's best as soon as the Super 6 winner fights Bute.

[damned1974]

How can Bute fight the fighters in the Super Six when they're in the Super Six and he was excluded from it??????

Excluded....deliberately? Not sure....I haven't read one article where he has tried pushing to join the tournament,let alone fight someone who is a better fight than the trash he has been fighting recently.Hell,even Hopkins tried getting a fight with him (and was declined) and I am sure Dawson would have fought him (he wanted to go down to SMW due to the lack of decent names in the LHW division at the time).It just seems odd that someone would stay in a division for years if there is limited options unless they were content having the easy fights.