Prime Tyson vs Prime Wlad - Who wins?

[Steak]

Aaah, you mention the principle of fighting bums vs fighting non-bums.

It's one of the most important principles and it distinguishes record from resume.

Unfortunately for you kicking bums off the record INCREASES lead that Ross has:

You know what KOratio Foreman has against non-bums? 61%. Lennox? 66%. Wladimir Klitschko? 83%. Vitali? 81%. Thus surviving 21 rounds against both Klitschkos is a far greater proof of a greater chin than surviving against Foreman for 2 rounds.

You see, your interjection leads to the opposite conclusion of what you wanted.


I explained it in my post.


I've seen that fight. That was Ross' second fight. Doesn't change the fact that Ross survived Wlad, Vit, Dimitrenko, Morisson and Corrie Sanders. Chuvalo's fight against Foreman fades in comparison.

ok, now heres the problem: youre probably going by some loopy logic of pretty records=good fighters Im betting. which, as I showed by example previously with Clark and Brunson, is not correct. they were still crappy fighters, despite their amazing record breaking resumes.

Wladimir has victories over 10 guys that were top ten in the division when he fought them. Peterx2, Thompson, Brewster, Byrdx2, Chagaev, Ibragimov, McCline, and Chambers.
he has 7/10 KOs over them. easy math, 70%.

George Foreman has victories over 8 guys in that were top ten in the division when he fought them. Peralta, Chuvalo, Frazierx2, Lyle, Norton, Roman, and Moorer.
he has 8/8 KOs over them. again, easy math, 100%.

I dont want to do the other guys, because Wladimir is no doubt a hard puncher. but dont discredit guys like Foreman.

how can you just skate over the fact Puritty got KOed by a bum? he was 23 years old, its not like he wasnt physically developed.
Ive seen other boxers take far harder punches than Purrity has. you know what, for a journeyman, he no doubt is extremely durable. but best of all time? come on now.

[hweightblogger]

But has Wlad shown the ability to beat power boxers that come out and unload their arsenal right away?

Watch the first round against Brewster. That is exactly how a Wlad-Tyson clash would be. That's how Tyson would rush forward and that's how easily Wlad would have handled him (even easier considering that prime Mike was lighter than Brewster and smaller than De La Hoya).

Wlad was beating Brewster (who has a similar KOratio like Tyson) to pulp before he mysteriously collapsed without being even hit once properly. Brewster couldn't even floor Wlad.

The rematch was the exact duplicate of the first match, except for that strange collapse.

[ALAXAN_FR]

Tyson.... we're talkin bout bein prim here, if were talkin bout his early 20's when he reigned undisputed WBC, WBA and IBF splintered world heavyweight titles... dominance... Klitchko could be in dominating form right now in the Heavyweight division, but he hasnt face anyone with the tenacity and the speed that Tyson bellied during his prime.... Speed and Power that still has to be seen again in the ring for a very long time now.

[hweightblogger]

ok, now heres the problem: youre probably going by some loopy logic of pretty records=good fighters Im betting. which, as I showed by example previously with Clark and Brunson, is not correct. they were still crappy fighters, despite their amazing record breaking resumes.

No, here's your problem: LaMar Clark has a record of 0 against non-bums.

LaMar Clark and Eric Esch are the typical examples of people who want to find mistakes in my numbers. LaMar Clark in my calculations has a record of 0 because he hasn't won against a single non-bum.

Wladimir has victories over 10 guys that were top ten in the division when he fought them. Peterx2, Thompson, Brewster, Byrdx2, Chagaev, Ibragimov, McCline, and Chambers.
he has 7/10 KOs over them. easy math, 70%.

George Foreman has victories over 8 guys in that were top ten in the division when he fought them. Peralta, Chuvalo, Frazierx2, Lyle, Norton, Roman, and Moorer.
he has 8/8 KOs over them. again, easy math, 100%.

Top10s are utterly subjective and merely represent the last few fights. I only care about whole careers. By your logic beating Vitali Klitschko in 2001 would have no meaning because he wasn't ranked or so. The opposite applies to Leon Spinks, who is clearly a bum 26-17, yet was ranked. In my book beating unranked Vitali has more value than beating ranked Spinks BECAUSE THE WHOLE CAREER COUNTS.

I dont want to do the other guys, because Wladimir is no doubt a hard puncher. but dont discredit guys like Foreman.

Where the heck did I discredit Foreman? I just said that surviving Foreman for 2.5 rounds (Chuvalo) is a far less achievement than surviving both Klitschkos for 20+ rounds (Ross).

how can you just skate over the fact Puritty got KOed by a bum?

Because the rest of his career speaks for his chin DESPITE his early loss. How can you skate over Ali being schooled by Cooper and Banks?

Otherwise just a single knockdown or knockout would immediately disqualify you for the "hard chin award" because Chuvalo has never been (officially) knocked down.

Ive seen other boxers take far harder punches than Purrity has

No, you have maybe seen punches that LOOKED harder than what Puritty took. But that's your subjective view. Surviving Sanders, Klitschkos, Morrison and others is worth more than punches that looked hard.

you know what, for a journeyman, he no doubt is extremely durable. but best of all time? come on now.

Puritty is a 31-20 bum (due to his terrible offense). But he has the best heavyweight chin of all time nevertheless. But you mentioning Oliver McCall shows a good knowledge. I give you that.

[hweightblogger]

Tyson.... we're talkin bout bein prim here, if were talkin bout his early 20's when he reigned undisputed WBC, WBA and IBF splintered world heavyweight titles... dominance...

Prime Tyson was KOed by Buster Douglas.

Klitchko could be in dominating form right now in the Heavyweight division, but he hasnt face anyone with the tenacity and the speed that Tyson bellied during his prime.... Speed and Power that still has to be seen again in the ring for a very long time now.

It's true the other way around, too: Tyson hasn't faced anyone like Klitschko.

[Steak]

No, here's your problem: LaMar Clark has a record of 0 against non-bums.

LaMar Clark and Eric Esch are the typical examples of people who want to find mistakes in my numbers. LaMar Clark in my calculations has a record of 0 because he hasn't won against a single non-bum.


Top10s are utterly subjective and merely represent the last few fights. I only care about whole careers. By your logic beating Vitali Klitschko in 2001 would have no meaning because he wasn't ranked or so. The opposite applies to Leon Spinks, who is clearly a bum 26-17, yet was ranked. In my book beating unranked Vitali has more value than beating ranked Spinks BECAUSE THE WHOLE CAREER COUNTS.

well thats not entirely fair. Spinks was undefeated and a decent fighter once upon a time. if Vitali or Wladimir lost 5 times in a row when they were past their prime, would that discredit how good they were at their best?
on the contrary, how good a fighter is at that present time is what matters.

although top 10s are subjective, they give a MUCH more realistic picture of the state of the division than records do. I mean, what do you consider bum and not bum? how are you ranking these guys? the top 10 lists Im pulling from are based off of what the fighters accomplished against other top fighters at the time.

Where the heck did I discredit Foreman? I just said that surviving Foreman for 2.5 rounds is a far less achievement than surviving both Klitschkos for 20+ rounds.


Because the rest of his career speaks for his chin DESPITE his early loss. How can you skate over Ali being schooled by Cooper and Banks?

schooled by Cooper and Banks? other than getting quicky dropped, he dominated both fights. and Cooper wasnt a weak puncher by any means...if you watch his fights, although he wasnt the best fighter, he could really punch.

Otherwise just a single knockdown or knockout would immediately disqualify you for the "hard chin award" because Chuvalo has never been (officially) knocked down.


No, you have maybe seen punches that LOOKED harder than what Puritty took. But that's your subjective view. Surviving Sanders, Klitschkos, Morrison and others is worth more than punches that looked hard.


Puritty is a 31-20 bum (due to his terrible offense). But he has the best heavyweight chin of all time nevertheless. But you mentioning Oliver McCall shows a good knowledge. I give you that.

Chuvalo had the fight stopped against him, and he was still on his feet against Foreman after eating flush bomb after flush bomb.

Foreman's power was huge. Even at 45 years old he still KOed the lineal HW champ with a single punch. Imagine how hard he hit in his prime. and Chuvalo took multiple of those shots flush without going down.

Puritty was KOed by a bum at 23 years old, which was probably near his physical prime.

and it wasnt even that huge or flush of a shot...

[Sweet Jesus]

Watch the first round against Brewster. That is exactly how a Wlad-Tyson clash would be. That's how Tyson would rush forward and that's how easily Wlad would have handled him (even easier considering that prime Mike was lighter than Brewster and smaller than De La Hoya).

Wlad was beating Brewster (who has a similar KOratio like Tyson) to pulp before he mysteriously collapsed without being even hit once properly. Brewster couldn't even floor Wlad.

The rematch was the exact duplicate of the first match, except for that strange collapse.

OMG you just compared Brewster to Mike Tyson. no no no no no

[betmen]

No one would win...you really think Prime Tyson would get in the ring with Wlad? Seriously? Dude was afraid of 44 year old foreman, never fought bowe, never fought Lewis. Anyways, Tyson would get frustrated as hell against prime Wlad, he hit hard, but prime Tyson wasnt experienced or mature enough in the ring to handle Wlad, id expect some point deductions as he'd get frustrated taking hits trying to get inside and then being held and then have 245 lbs resting on him. Wlad is much more athletic than people give him credit for. we all know prime vitali would murder tyson, im glad we can agree on that at least.

Prime and wasnt experienced tyson destroyed berbick, thomas and HOLMES.
and if wlad get KO by speedy like corrie sanders so how he can last 3 round again speed demon like tyson.
STYLE MAKE FIGHT

[betmen]

Prime and wasnt experienced tyson destroyed berbick, thomas and HOLMES.
and if wlad get KO by speedy like corrie sanders so how he can last 3 round again speed demon like tyson.
STYLE MAKE FIGHT

QUESTION : IN HBO LEGENDARY NIGHT MOORER VS FOREMAN I SEE FOREMAN(BALD VERSION) GETTING BEAT, HIS FACE ALL BLOODY, BRUISE ALL OVER HIS FACE. I WANNA KNOW HWO HE's FIGHTING, ANYONE CAN HELP!!!!

[Jim Jeffries]

I think Tyson is a bad matchup for Wlad, but Mike was pretty easy to tie up (see the Bonecrusher Smith fight) and it's possible Wlad could do the jab and grab early, lean on him in the clinches, and make a fight of it in the later rounds. Thing is when people talk about Mike's prime, they're talking about 3 years or so. Most people think Wlad is still in his prime and it's been going on 7 years without a loss, 8 since the Sanders fight and more than a dozen since the Puritty fight. So it pays to define exactly when his prime has been.

My money would be on Mike, but I could see Manny giving Wlad a decent gameplan to frustrate him, assuming Wlad can make it out of the early rounds.