Resume, career, accomplishments: Adamek vs Haye, you decide...

[£-4-£]

I agree with £-4-£'s post.

Let me also add that Haye has one of the best KOratios amongst all champions and in Ali's times ALL of Haye's fights would have counted as "heavyweight" thus Haye would be approximately on par with George Foreman.

Haye would be a proof of the greatness of the Golden Age of heavyweight boxing.


Let me also add that Adamek's cruiser opponents have started their careers lower than Haye's. Adamek's opponents started at 165 lbs on the avergae while Haye's started at 176 lbs. Thus Haye has not only a higher KOratio but also against genuine cruiserweights.


No, that's not the reason.

I analyzed hundreds of records and a drop in KOratio is TYPICAL for natural cruisers who move up to heavyweight. Whereas natural heavies keep their KOratio pretty even.

name              |sub200|200+ |215+ opponents
------------------+------+-----+--------------
Wladimir Klitschko|-     |87.5%|87.5% (42of48)
Lennox Lewis      |-     |75.6%|75.0% (27of36)
David Haye        |87.5% |90.0%|85.7% (6of7)
Muhammad Ali      |79.1% |40.5%|33.3% (5of15)
Mike Tyson        |100.0%|78.0%|73.6% (28of38)
Michael Moorer    |100.0%|51.4%|46.1% (12of26)
Joe Frazier       |100.0%|50.0%|45.4% (5of11)
Evander Holyfield |77.7% |40.0%|34.4% (10of29)
Larry Holmes      |50.0% |58.2%|45.9% (17of37)
Tomasz Adamek     |63.8% |62.5%|40.0% (2of5)
Earnie Shavers    |90.9% |68.4%|47.8% (11of23)

As you see most guys lose their KOchances against heavier opponents, but it's clear that genuine cruisers like Evan Fields, Ali and Michael Moorer lose the most while genuine heavyweights like Wladimir Klitschko or Lennox Lewis lose the least from 200 to 215.

So you have cruiser powerpunchers like Holyfield or Frazier (whom you cannot attest lack of killer instinct) but who utterly failed as soon as the opponents got heavier.


I agree.

For once you make some sense, just a bit though

[hweightblogger]

For once you make some sense, just a bit though

Yup, as soon as stats support your view you agree.

But let me mention a stat where Adamek is better:

Adamek has faced more southpaws (5) than Haye (2)

Aside from HEIGHT/WEIGHT it's the STANCE that is the single most significant feature that makes or breaks your KOratio (just think about Roy Jones Jr, or Wlad's non-KOs/late KO against Ibragimov, Byrd, Thompson and Sanders). No wonder Tyson and Lewis never faced any noteworthy southpaw. There are only little champions that were brave enough to face many southpaws and Adamek is one of them thus this is definitely important to mention.

Once you delete southpaw cruisers 
off the record of Adamek 
his cruiser KOratio is 70%, which is pretty high.

And another stat: As I pointed out at

http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/showthread.php?p=9922740#post9922740

David Haye is THE ONLY heavyweight world champion who has never faced a YOUNGER-THAN-SELF opponent in his whole career (cruiser+heavy).

Adamek's younger-than-self opponents: 6 (+5 unknown ages)
Haye younger-than-self opponents: 0

Adamek's average age opponent: 31.4yro
Haye's average age opponent: 34.2yro

This difference is astonishing since both started at 22 years of age.

[£-4-£]

David Haye is THE ONLY heavyweight world champion who has never faced a YOUNGER-THAN-SELF opponent in his whole career (cruiser+heavy).

Adamek's younger-than-self opponents: 6 (+5 unknown ages)
Haye younger-than-self opponents: 0

Adamek's average age opponent: 31.4yro
Haye's average age opponent: 34.2yro

This difference is astonishing since both started at 22 years of age.

Dude, Enzo Mac is the same age as Haye, 3 months older, that's it. Haye beat a prime Enzo Mac.

Besides. At 30 years old and having had only 26 fights, Haye is relatively inexperienced. Most of the top fighters in the HW division are older than him (Wlad, Vitali, Adamek, Chagaev, Povetkin, Thompson).

There are no real top fighters that are the same age or younger than Haye, only a few decent contenders (Chambers, Arreola, Chisora, Solis, Peter). There's no use in Haye fighting any of those because Klit Bros have already owned Peter, Arreola and Chambers, Solis is going to fight Vitali, and Chisora is still very green and about to fight Wladimir. Haye doesn't need their left-overs.

[Steak]

Adamek, of course. in a p4p sense at least. He was champ at LHW, #1 at Cruiserweight, and now is a top 5 guy at Heavyweight.

as a heavyweight Haye is more accomplished.



all you kids having fun with stats, just stop. numbers dont make you great.

[joe strong]

haye had 3 CW titles,has the WBA title(dont care about your conspiracy theories),has wins over audley harrison(gold medalist but average pro),Valuev(2 time world champion), ruiz(2 time world champ),monte barrett(2 time world title challenger,gatekeeper)...he also had significant CW wins vs o'neil bell & mormeck. pretty good resume by 30....adamek LHW title,CW title,had good CW wins over banks & cunningham.wins over golota(4time world title challenger), grant(1 time title challenger), maddalone, jason estrada(gatekeeper),arreola(1 time title challenger)....both have good resumes but i give haye the nod...beat better cruiserweights,he had 3 of the 4 titles,fought more accomplished guys at heavyweight...adamek has had an excellent career too

[The Hammer]

haye had 3 CW titles,has the WBA title(dont care about your conspiracy theories),has wins over audley harrison(gold medalist but average pro),Valuev(2 time world champion), ruiz(2 time world champ),monte barrett(2 time world title challenger,gatekeeper)...he also had significant CW wins vs o'neil bell & mormeck. pretty good resume by 30....adamek LHW title,CW title,had good CW wins over banks & cunningham.wins over golota(4time world title challenger), grant(1 time title challenger), maddalone, jason estrada(gatekeeper),arreola(1 time title challenger)....both have good resumes but i give haye the nod...beat better cruiserweights,he had 3 of the 4 titles,fought more accomplished guys at heavyweight...adamek has had an excellent career too

Haye NEVER fought O'Neil Bell at cruiserweight!

Adamek did though, and won very convincingly.

Adamek's win over PRIME Arreola is better than anything Haye has done fighting those old men at heavyweight.

[£-4-£]

If Haye fought Adamek, Haye would stop him. He's bigger, faster, stronger, has good combos and good angles and is younger.