Funny how Lewis fans justify.........

[jimmy1569]

The cut WAS opened up by an illegal shot, a classic hit and hold with Lewis pulling Vitali's head in a clinch, dirt boxing if ever I saw it. Should have been a point deduction and then onto the cards when it opened up more and was stopped. Those are the rules of the game.

Thank you.. in fact ALL OF HIS telling shots in the fight were all at close quarters & catching Vitali ON HIS BLINDSIDE ( NO PUN INTENDED). tHE FREAKIN SHOT THAT OPENED up the cut might as well have been an accidental headbutt. I blame Vitali FOR FALLING ASLEEP ON THE INSIDE as when they're tied up is when he's let up thinking the action was OVAH,,, how about when Foreman was the only one admonishing Lewis for holding & hitting.. He got away with like 6 shots in a row to Vitali's midsection...Vitali Kept rolling with it & wanted to decapitate him once Lennox was through. Lennox fought dirty in the fight & his experience saw him through after he was getting ready to get ktfo.. No steward IN HIS CORNER & he would've.

[Johnwoo8686]

Does Vitali even have an inside game? Most of his fights are won by keeping his opponents on the long end of a job. His fighting style is based more on sticking and moving. When was the last time Vitali fought anyone close to his size who possesses elite skill? Lennox is probably the last fighter that Vitai faced who has those attributes. Im with the group that says if a past prime Lennox can stop Vitali what do you think happens with a prime Lennox?

[hweightblogger]

History lesson for you:

Corbett 26 sullivan 33

Johnson 32 Jeffries 35

WIllard 33 Johnson 37

Dempsey 24 Willard 37

Marciano 28 Louis 37

Ali 22 Liston 35

Holmes 31 ALi 38

Tyson 22 Holmes 38

Vitali 31 Lennox 37

A typical post by JoeyZagz.

1) Self-invented statistics (who is ATG and who not)
2) featuring wrong numbers (you got several ages wrong, e.g. Ali-Liston and Tyson-Holmes)
3) cherry-picked examples

I wonder why you don't mention Evander Holyfield (older) vs Tyson? Or Lennox Lewis (older) vs Tyson? Or Ali (older) vs Ken Norton.

In fact I thoroughly checked the following claim of yours:

Google the above fights and you will find that the younger ATG ALWAYS beats the elder ATG...

There have been 78 heavyweight world champs to date (WBA, WBO, WBC, IBF, IBO). They fought 178 fights against each other. In these 178 fights 60 (= 33%) were won by the OLDER fighter.

But aside from your self-invented cherry-picked stats you make an even greater mistake:

You dare to list cruisers like Marciano (average fighting weight 184 lbs) and Jack Johnson (average opponent weight 190 lbs) and James J Jeffries (only 19 wins, average opponent weight 185 lbs) who have NOTHING whatsoever to do with modern heavyweights AND ESPECIALLY NOTHING with a superheavyweight fight like Lennox vs Vitali, which was the heaviest-ever world championship fight then.

Everyone knows that at the lower weights SPEED matters most thus AGE plays huge role. At superheavyweight it's far more important to be HEAVY and EXPERIENCED.

Either Vitali isnt an ATG or Lennox is just that damn good. You be the judge..

Lennox Lewis is damn good.

Nevertheless: Vitali's skin only cut while Lennox received his first nose fracture in his career. He still runs around with a demolished nose while Vitali's cut is barely visible. You just need to take a look at Lennox face to see the reason why he No Mas'd out.

[Dirk Diggler UK]

The cut WAS opened up by an illegal shot, a classic hit and hold with Lewis pulling Vitali's head in a clinch, dirt boxing if ever I saw it. Should have been a point deduction and then onto the cards when it opened up more and was stopped. Those are the rules of the game.

So now clean punches to the face are "dubious" and "illegal"

[Joeyzagz]

3) cherry-picked examples

I wonder why you don't mention Evander Holyfield (older) vs Tyson? Or Lennox Lewis (older) vs Tyson? Or Ali (older) vs Ken Norton.

In fact I thoroughly checked the following claim of yours:


There have been 78 heavyweight world champs to date (WBA, WBO, WBC, IBF, IBO). They fought 178 fights against each other. In these 178 fights 60 (= 33%) were won by the OLDER fighter.

My post was about young ATGs beating old ATGs. I couldve used any weight class to make the same point. The people listed are all members of the Boxing Hall of fame with the exception of Vitali(still active)

But aside from your self-invented cherry-picked stats you make an even greater mistake:

You dare to list cruisers like Marciano (average fighting weight 184 lbs) and Jack Johnson (average opponent weight 190 lbs) and James J Jeffries (only 19 wins, average opponent weight 185 lbs) who have NOTHING whatsoever to do with modern heavyweights AND ESPECIALLY NOTHING with a superheavyweight fight like Lennox vs Vitali, which was the heaviest-ever world championship fight then.

Everyone knows that at the lower weights SPEED matters most thus AGE plays huge role. At superheavyweight it's far more important to be HEAVY and EXPERIENCED.

Speed matters at every level in boxing. Thats how a 187 lb Dempsey can destroy a 6'6 245 lb Jess Willard....

-Thats how a 196 lb Joe Louis obliterated a 260 lb Primo Carnera

Thats how Vitali Klitschko missed 370 punches against little Chris Byrd...

Heavy is a hindrance after a certain point, which is why Vitali now targets Fatter people like Arreola, Peter, SOlis and Briggs. He will NEVER fight a quick boxer again.

[Steak]

this must be one of the most overdiscussed fights ever. more than any other on this website, actually...even Mayweather-Castilo 1.

although its not really surprising. it was the last great HW fight to date. the dominant champ of one era vs the future champ.
doesnt hurt that it was actually great to watch, so rare to find an exciting top level HW fight now....


anyways, the facts are

-Lewis caused the legitimate cut to Vitali's eye
-Vitali was ahead on the scorecards
-The fight was legitimately stopped, not just because of the severity of the cut but because of its location...more often than not the cut stoppage is mostly based on blood getting into the eye, thats the true reason doctors stop the fight usually.


personally, I thought Lewis was coming on in the final round anyway. Not only did he land that huge uppercut in the clinch, but he seemed to wobble Vitali with a short right hand that had Vitali grabbing desperately.


its interesting that the fight was a last ditch resort type of fight. Lewis was supposed to fight Kirk Johnson and Vitali was supposed to fight Cedric Boswell...on the same card.
how lucky.

[j]

well this has been done to death.

one thing a should be understood if u really know fighting or boxing.
- cuts dont tell who is the better fighter as it is not a developed skill, goal of training, strategy or part of a fight plan.

lewis luckily scored a nasty gash. thats it.

thats it. no skill, just luck.

had there been a rematch, it is highly probably that there would not be a stoppage due to a cut.

so, to me lewis's win doesnt prove a damn thing.

no stoppage due to a cut ever proves very much.

only boxing skills and punishment given. not freak once-in-a-decade type cuts.

its just the same as if i fought u, your elbow nicked my eye during an exchange and gave me a nasty gash, but thats all u did as i beat your ass. my cut might look bad, but doesnt change that i have beaten your ass and would have done so again.

thats how this lewis-klitschko fight was, except lewis was getting completely run over.

btw, vitali is how old? he doesnt seem to be so slow and old as of now. if vitali really wasnt ****, why didnt he get dominated even close to how vitali dominates his opponents. even off a 4 year layoff!

why dont we just view the fight as it was - the fight it was without resorting to a freack accident of a cut that was never intended to happen or ever would again? if we just look at the fighting itself, vitali almost KOd lewis in rnd 2 but gave lewis too much respect and backed off. lewis had a stronger ending, but, no, sorry, vitali wasnt rattled as much as some people might think. though he did eat a couple monster bombs. vitali wouldnt have sat back another round.

in my eyes, it was perhaps one of the last legendary heavyweight fights we have had. i remember watching it, and it had that special feeling to it. even the peeps who didnt know VK were in awe of how he was making lewis stumble. just a spectacular fight.

so a dude like joeyzags before me can show all the pics he wants of the cut. but, in reality that only shows his ignorance of evaluating a fight. any idiot can look at that cut and see it is bad cut. but a follower of boxing, or a fighter, or one who trains sees deeper than that.

[jimmy1569]

well this has been done to death.

one thing a should be understood if u really know fighting or boxing.
- cuts dont tell who is the better fighter as it is not a developed skill, goal of training, strategy or part of a fight plan.

lewis luckily scored a nasty gash. thats it.

thats it. no skill, just luck.

had there been a rematch, it is highly probably that there would not be a stoppage due to a cut.

so, to me lewis's win doesnt prove a damn thing.

no stoppage due to a cut ever proves very much.

only boxing skills and punishment given. not freak once-in-a-decade type cuts.

its just the same as if i fought u, your elbow nicked my eye during an exchange and gave me a nasty gash, but thats all u did as i beat your ass. my cut might look bad, but doesnt change that i have beaten your ass and would have done so again.

thats how this lewis-klitschko fight was, except lewis was getting completely run over.

btw, vitali is how old? he doesnt seem to be so slow and old as of now. if vitali really wasnt ****, why didnt he get dominated even close to how vitali dominates his opponents. even off a 4 year layoff!

why dont we just view the fight as it was - the fight it was without resorting to a freack accident of a cut that was never intended to happen or ever would again? if we just look at the fighting itself, vitali almost KOd lewis in rnd 2 but gave lewis too much respect and backed off. lewis had a stronger ending, but, no, sorry, vitali wasnt rattled as much as some people might think. though he did eat a couple monster bombs. vitali wouldnt have sat back another round.

in my eyes, it was perhaps one of the last legendary heavyweight fights we have had. i remember watching it, and it had that special feeling to it. even the peeps who didnt know VK were in awe of how he was making lewis stumble. just a spectacular fight.

so a dude like joeyzags before me can show all the pics he wants of the cut. but, in reality that only shows his ignorance of evaluating a fight. any idiot can look at that cut and see it is bad cut. but a follower of boxing, or a fighter, or one who trains sees deeper than that.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++=
Brilliant,,,finally someone steps up to the plate & actually saw the fight & IS NOT using the cut as a culprit to winning boxing. Only thing wrong i found with your assessment & that the haters will pick up on is the getting cut by an elbow part. You should of stated getting cut by dreadlocks or glove stitching.

A CUT ONLY prematurely stops a fight..it shouldn't award victory to a fighter who was clearly & concisely losing the fight but unfortunately rules are rules. The doctor stopped the fight without Vitali's consent.. yet Lewis HAS A tko NEXT TO HIS record.. where the hell is the justice in that when Vitali was the one who was taking him to school & back. Let's see you beat him without a giant gash along his face... i guarantee that it would've never happened no matter which version of Lewis showed up.

Vitali was beating Lennox to the punch all night long not by no aberration...he's just more capable of hitting his opponents more than his opponents can hit him. 43 times in a row..he's proven it..yes vITALI CAN BE HIT IF YOU HAVE EXCEPTIONAL speed & power combined with size but he's always going to hit you more & that's a 100% fact & proven in every fight including his 2 losses fighting with a clear handicap./

[hweightblogger]

My post was about young ATGs beating old ATGs.

Are you switching definitions again? Your post was about youngER (not young) ATGs.

I couldve used any weight class to make the same point. The people listed are all members of the Boxing Hall of fame with the exception of Vitali(still active)

So, it's not about ATGs but about HOFers? Switching again?

However, the main purpose of my post was to discredit your fabulated result that Vitali is the ONLY ONE younger who lost to an older. The younger losing is nothing special, e.g. Holyfield-Tyson etc...

Speed matters at every level in boxing.

Yes, it does. But it matters far less at heavyweight boxing. Otherwise Valuev or Sonny Liston couldn't have won so often.

Thats how a 187 lb Dempsey can destroy a 6'6 245 lb Jess Willard....

-Thats how a 196 lb Joe Louis obliterated a 260 lb Primo Carnera

Spare us some ancient heavyweight fights from approx. 92(!) years ago.

Thats how Vitali Klitschko missed 370 punches against little Chris Byrd...

Heavy is a hindrance after a certain point, which is why Vitali now targets Fatter people like Arreola, Peter, SOlis and Briggs. He will NEVER fight a quick boxer again.

Yes, I maybe even agree with you that Vitali after the Byrd-experience ducks slower/slicker fighters. I give elastic Byrd full credit for deranging Vitali's shoulder.

[Dirk Diggler UK]

well this has been done to death.

one thing a should be understood if u really know fighting or boxing.
- cuts dont tell who is the better fighter as it is not a developed skill, goal of training, strategy or part of a fight plan.

lewis luckily scored a nasty gash. thats it.

thats it. no skill, just luck.

had there been a rematch, it is highly probably that there would not be a stoppage due to a cut.

so, to me lewis's win doesnt prove a damn thing.

no stoppage due to a cut ever proves very much.

only boxing skills and punishment given. not freak once-in-a-decade type cuts.

its just the same as if i fought u, your elbow nicked my eye during an exchange and gave me a nasty gash, but thats all u did as i beat your ass. my cut might look bad, but doesnt change that i have beaten your ass and would have done so again.

thats how this lewis-klitschko fight was, except lewis was getting completely run over.

btw, vitali is how old? he doesnt seem to be so slow and old as of now. if vitali really wasnt ****, why didnt he get dominated even close to how vitali dominates his opponents. even off a 4 year layoff!

why dont we just view the fight as it was - the fight it was without resorting to a freack accident of a cut that was never intended to happen or ever would again? if we just look at the fighting itself, vitali almost KOd lewis in rnd 2 but gave lewis too much respect and backed off. lewis had a stronger ending, but, no, sorry, vitali wasnt rattled as much as some people might think. though he did eat a couple monster bombs. vitali wouldnt have sat back another round.

in my eyes, it was perhaps one of the last legendary heavyweight fights we have had. i remember watching it, and it had that special feeling to it. even the peeps who didnt know VK were in awe of how he was making lewis stumble. just a spectacular fight.

so a dude like joeyzags before me can show all the pics he wants of the cut. but, in reality that only shows his ignorance of evaluating a fight. any idiot can look at that cut and see it is bad cut. but a follower of boxing, or a fighter, or one who trains sees deeper than that.

Landing a clean punch which opens a gash on your opponents face is lucky?

So we've had "dubious", "lucky" and even "illegal" to describe a clean hard punch to the face in boxing.