Manny would have been a HOF fighter without Freddy

[cixthree]

I really believe if Manny and Roach had never met, Manny would still have become a multi division champ. (Heres why)

Manny came to Freddy raw but talented, he'd gotten that far on sheer guts, heart and incredable talent.
All you have to do with a guy like Manny is give him little bits, step back and watch him do it his way.

Don't get me wrong, I like Freddy. I think Freddy is one of if not the best trainers today. And yes, he's taken Manny further with than without him.(True)
But just looking at Manny, and how good he was raw. Imagine any good trainer getting ahold of this guy, with his sheer ability Manny would be just as if not better than he is now.

Game planning and prep are 2 different things I know, but I'm speaking on just talent alone.
All Manny needed before Roach was the simple ABCs of boxing, Roach saw this I'd bet.
So Mannys talent helps Freddy seem better than he really is.

It's easy to have a champ handed to you, but what if you're handed something not so talented?
Has Freddy ever really molded and made a champ out of any fighter?

[infamous larryx]

wrong..jordan wouldnt have 6 rings without scottie pippen

[Chups]

Hell no.............

[infamous larryx]

it takes all the right things to become great..

[puga]

freddy took manny in when nobody would..........pac owes a lot to freddy, he knows and acknowledges it...

[infamous larryx]

all you have to do is look at mike tyson....you see how he was with a great trainer and the right corner..and you saw him with a poor trainer and the wrong corner..

[starkiller]

Pacquiao wouldn't have beaten Cotto or Margarito without Roach.

[Phil Ivey]

Roach is also an excellent match maker.

[infamous larryx]

Pacquiao wouldn't have beaten Cotto or Margarito without Roach.

he wouldve even drew or got a split decision with jmm..

[AFighter4U]

I really believe if Manny and Roach had never met, Manny would still have become a multi division champ. (Heres why)

Manny came to Freddy raw but talented, he'd gotten that far on sheer guts, heart and incredable talent.
All you have to do with a guy like Manny is give him little bits, step back and watch him do it his way.

Don't get me wrong, I like Freddy. I think Freddy is one of if not the best trainers today. And yes, he's taken Manny further with than without him.(True)
But just looking at Manny, and how good he was raw. Imagine any good trainer getting ahold of this guy, with his sheer ability Manny would be just as if not better than he is now.

Game planning and prep are 2 different things I know, but I'm speaking on just talent alone.
All Manny needed before Roach was the simple ABCs of boxing, Roach saw this I'd bet.
So Mannys talent helps Freddy seem better than he really is.

It's easy to have a champ handed to you, but what if you're handed something not so talented?
Has Freddy ever really molded and made a champ out of any fighter?

I disagree with you there, but you do have an interesting point.

one thing i AM sure about is Pac would have been definitely better off without Konz.