Manny would have been a HOF fighter without Freddy

[Dempsey-Roll]

id have to agree with TS.
manny is already talented before roach.
the guy is a fast learner.
i'm sure if any good trainer got a hold of pac, pac would still be a HOFer

[pbftxrs316]

man--you have to ****ing kidding me--manny's record would be worst----freddy roach dictates manny's choices to fight guys that are past it--coming off of losses and bad wins--he even shoots himself in the foot before the fight by confirming my claims-lol---

freddy doesn't think---lol---but he has improved manny--that's for sure---manny owes freddy the biggest thank you ever---he would have not been where he is today imo--nowhere close---

his right hand would still be lacking--which is overrated anyway---but freddy enhanced manny--and i think you know what i mean by that-lol--

[tacuso]

I really believe if Manny and Roach had never met, Manny would still have become a multi division champ. (Heres why)

Manny came to Freddy raw but talented, he'd gotten that far on sheer guts, heart and incredable talent.
All you have to do with a guy like Manny is give him little bits, step back and watch him do it his way.

Don't get me wrong, I like Freddy. I think Freddy is one of if not the best trainers today. And yes, he's taken Manny further with than without him.(True)
But just looking at Manny, and how good he was raw. Imagine any good trainer getting ahold of this guy, with his sheer ability Manny would be just as if not better than he is now.

Game planning and prep are 2 different things I know, but I'm speaking on just talent alone.
All Manny needed before Roach was the simple ABCs of boxing, Roach saw this I'd bet.
So Mannys talent helps Freddy seem better than he really is.

It's easy to have a champ handed to you, but what if you're handed something not so talented?
Has Freddy ever really molded and made a champ out of any fighter?

Could have but if you know the story, it would not have happened. Manny came to the US looking for a trainer. With his manager, they approached many trainers who rejected Manny. Discouraged, and deciding to get back home, they tried once more. It happened to be Roach and the rest is history.
Think of it...what if they went home before Roach...they do not have money to stay longer.

[AKATheMack]

The transformation in Pac has been huge with Freddy and Freddy definitely deserves credit for that, but it obviously doesnt hurt to have a unique athletic specimen whos also willing to follow advice. Knowing how to be a good trainer is one thing but to have someone who is willing to listen and can physically do anything you ask of him is unusual.

[hugh grant]

Pac was world champ by 19. Thats saying something.

[PainKiller]

Roach teaches very well, and his gym is good.

You can argue that all trainers are not as good without a special fighter, and a fighter won't be good without their trainer.

Pacquaio learnt from the Philipines early, and I wouldn't say they had great trainers, but they have poor and hungry guys who would work selling coffee or soemthing if not boxing.

Maybe other great trainers could have done the same, but Roach was the one.

[Pacquiao>Duran]

go eat ur chiken man u ployd lover. u gay man? pacman is alrdy in the hof he is the best

[hugh grant]

go eat ur chiken man u ployd lover. u gay man? pacman is alrdy in the hof he is the best

Is that tall girl standing next to Pac in your avatar filipino?