If Tony beats Pac, will it damage his standing a top 5 ATG?

[Pudgemeister]

I talked about how defensive boxing has changed and evolved. Music is a science and boxing is often called the "sweet science."

Modern fighters due to advances in technology and conditioning tend to be bigger and stronger. Most importantly, they have learned and advances from what others have left behind. To look at a fighter who fought 80 years ago and laugh shows ******ity in the classic sense. Are cars the same as they were 80 years ago? Do you think 80 years in the evolution of the "sweet science" impact the way fighters fight?

So ****tier fighters beat other ****tier fighters to achieve ATG status?

[THE REED]

Watchin 24/7 finally..... man I cant wait for this fight.... Definitely a fan friendly fight.

[Bastian Loc]

george mikan was a beast....

until the nba instituted a shot clock. it basically made mikan obsolete overnight because he couldnt keep up with the faster pace. Much like most athletes from the 40s 50s & 60s when up against modern fighters & athletes.

babe ruth's fat asss couldnt make it pass triple a if his fat ass played in todays age.




the golden age of boxing = the most fraudulent age in boxing.

Mob controlled the outcomes of fights by frankie carbo, black fighters not given title shots, black fighters robbed on a daily basis, referees being in charge of refereeing & SCORING THE FIGHT (how ridiculous).

The only reason why old school fighters are made out to unbeatable gods, is because the people WHO THINK THEY DECIDE WHO RANKS WHERE are all OLD PEOPLE thus they want to PRESERVE THEIR HISTORY. They want THEIR HEROES & BOXERS to stay on top so they marginalize any modern fighter coming up in the all time rankings.

Its all about PRESERVING THEIR HISTORY.

To rank a boxer like greb who has NO VIDEO FIGHT FOOTAGE, well that highly reeks of ignorance, ******ity, & dishonesty.

This was meant as a playful bait thread, but you actually make a lot of good points here.

[PEBBLES!]

I too shudder with amazement that anyone can rank Harry Greb soo highly without seeing him fight.

[PEBBLES!]

Greb defeated 13 Hall of Famers - his record and resume is not in dispute, but if you haven't seen him fight there is no actual method to really gauge his greatness.


Judging him by a few minutes of sparring will be ******, though.

[HaglerSteelChin]

You can listen to a Beethoven Symphony and then to a Wagner Opera. You can dissect the form and see how perfectly constructed a Beethoven piece is and compare it to a later musician. You can analyze each note since we have scores of the music. You KNOW that he was incredible.

The best footage you have of some old time guys is some black and white footage that looks more like two pasty white college kids sparring in their garage.

Defining greatness is very subjective. I will rate fighter using several factors which includes dominance of their era as resumine of wins, impact, duration, technical skill, and durability(not getting knocked out and being competitive even in losses.

I will concede that we can't always judge an old fighter skills reasonably with footage. But there is still some accurate accounts of their skills and contributions. Even Muhammad Ali who was very critical of old fighter techinical skill has spoken highly of how Gene Tunney impacted the sport.

I am not those gives old fighters a free pass. I have said in the past that many of the past fighters due to the color barrier didn't always fight the best compeition, and also today the sport is much more international. You didn't have as many asian and latin fighters 80 years ago as today. So in many ways, the modern boxer has the chance to fight the true best.

Yes as said before, there was alot of corruption and fixed fights, a guy like Carnera was HW champ, and many of his wins were su****ious.

[Ragnar Lothbrok]

This was meant as a playful bait thread, but you actually make a lot of good points here.

of course they are good points. its common sense. babe ruth DID NOT PLAY AGAINST black guys, latinos, & asians. He played in the dead ball era. You think babe ruth could make a major league team today with his obese physique?

You think jim thorpe or bart starr could compete in the nfl?

How about bill russell? How do you think bill russell, a 6 foot 8, 240 lb center would do against dwight howard or the laker frontline?

Ive seen footage of henry armstrong, looks like a rich man's version of david/juan diaz.


Its all about preserving history.

[Ragnar Lothbrok]

I too shudder with amazement that anyone can rank Harry Greb soo highly without seeing him fight.

harry greb has 2 sets of records, one official,

& one called newspaper decisions.

you have got to be ****ing kidding me.

[PEBBLES!]

Henry Armstrong was more like a mini-Joe Frazier.

Comparing him to Juan Diaz is absurdity.

[PEBBLES!]

harry greb has 2 sets of records, one official,

& one called newspaper decisions.

you have got to be ****ing kidding me.