Comments Thread For: HBO Pres Unsure Why Mayweather Turned Pacquiao Down

[LeadUppercut]

Yes the SOB Arum lied. Ellerie clearly said "No Negotiations Happened".

I would rate a quote from Leonard Ellerbe as being much more credible than comments from a proven liar like Bob Arum. I would simply take Ellerbe's word over Arum's, end of story.

But, it is not only Ellerbe who insists that Bob Arum is a lying snake and that there were no official negotiations.....

As I mentioned earlier..... 6 people, belonging to 3 completely different business organisations, each of those people having first-hand information - 4 of whom would be ABSOLUTELY CRITICAL to that fight being made - ALL, categorically stated that..... "there were no official negotiations" !!

Twice, Schaefer offered to take a lie detector test..... and Ellerbe flatly stated that either Greenburg or Arum were lying, and that history shows who is telling the truth.

Plus, you have proof from Bob Arum's own forked tongue.....

HERE IS BOB ARUM LYING.....
http://www.boxingscene.com/?m=show&id=29293

HERE IS BOB ARUM ADMITTING IT.....
http://www.boxingscene.com/?m=show&id=29324

How much more proof do people need, even if they do have an agenda ?

[ALG United]

ALG, who said anything about drug testing ?

The issue is that Bob Arum completely lied about the negotiation and resulting deadline.

Who cares about drug tests ?

It is obvious why Arum wants to milk the Manny-cow dry before he feeds it to Mayweather.

Gettin a little sensitive on the ol steroid issue are ya?

1st Article - David Mayo a known Floyd ****rider said in his article:
http://www.mlive.com/mayweather/inde...e_over_ma.html

“I was tipped off two months ago exactly how this second round of Floyd Mayweather vs. Manny Pacquiao talks would happen -- or not happen, as it were. It sounded a bit implausible at the time, although it never left the forefront of my mind as the bombast flowed about negotiations which never happened. Ultimately, that conversation held an eerily accurate reflection on what actually occurred.” I now know that David can see the future, maybe I should call him up for an advice in future horsing tips…

“First, Arum, who promotes Pacquiao, relayed through HBO Sports president Ross Greenburg the terms he would find acceptable for making the fight. You can bet they were favorable terms for Pacquiao, which is to say terms Mayweather very well might find onerous. They probably included a 50-50 split in money, or something close to it. Arum steadfastly refused to specify that.” This is just an example that he was just SPECULATING WITHOUT PROOF, he’s an outsider looking in wherein his only grasp for truth is his knowledge of how the Mayweather’s think and do their business, maybe that’s what you get from hanging to Floyd’s balls too often…

2nd Article – by CJ James (Contributor) on July 21, 2010, http://bleacherreport.com/articles/4...before-ellerbe
The entire article is based mainly from quoting Marley as his principal source, some excerpts from the article:

“Negotiation just hadn't been happening. They'd started, briefly, but capitulated almost instantly, according to Marley.” And “Arum, according to Marley, approached Greenburg with his terms for the fight. Terms, Marley suspects, that were never going to be accepted. Terms, that in regards to drug testing, were even worse than the last fight.” So basically he was quoting Marley the entire article…

THIS CAME FROM MARLEY HIMSELF, NOTE THE DATE IT WAS PUBLISHED
http://www.examiner.com/boxing-in-na...the-cold-sauce

3rd Article - By Joe Wilson July 25, 2010, http://ringsidereport.com/?p=3897 excerpts from the article:

“According to Arum, weeks ago negotiations were going well with Team Mayweather, however, now we know that was just speculations. The results we the boxing fans have received from the news of “The Big Fight” have gone just the way Bob Arum planned it. He really wants no parts of “Money” Mayweather right now. Too early, just not part of the plan right now. Arum will deal with “Money” Mayweather when the time is right for him, not the fighters or the fans.” Clearly this guy is also SPECULATING, quoting news that we already read, he is also an outsider looking in with no real source at all…

Another one…
“After the dominating performance “Money” Mayweather displayed over Shane Mosley, tell me what promoter would want to jeopardize the legacy of his fighter, when he can gain more by fighting this guy on a later date? The writing was on the wall when, I heard from several sources, that Arum did not contact Team Mayweather at all during negotiations. Instead all negotiations went through the president of HBO Sports Ross Greenburg.” Now he is quoting sources without naming names… Hmmmm, but atleast he accepted the fact that Ross was directly involve in the “negotiation”…

Let’s see what Ross has to say, "Both times, the fight was very close to being made. And, the second time around, you know, all that I can say is that you would have to ask Floyd Mayweather why the fight wasn't made. To this day, I really don't know why Floyd decided that he didn't want the fight any more in the fall," Greenburg said.

4th Article - Monday, July 19, 2010, http://www.nowboxing.com/2010/07/bob...atement/12120/ excerpts from the article:
“Here are the facts,” said Ellerbe, “Al Haymon, Richard Schaefer and myself speak to each other on a regular basis and the truth is no negotiations have ever taken place nor was there ever a deal agreed upon by Team Mayweather or Floyd Mayweather to fight Manny Pacquiao on November 13.” Ellerbe went on to say someone is lying to the public about the situation, “Either Ross Greenburg or Bob Arum is not telling the truth, but history tells us who is lying.” So from Ellerbe’s comment about history telling us who is lying, he could be referring to Bob Arum who is well known for his famous quote: “Yesterday I was Lying, today I am telling the truth.” So with this statement Ellerbe was clearly avoiding burning bridges with the HBO President and referred to Arum as the one who’s lying. But both Arum and Ross made it clear that a 2nd negotiation really took place, so if Arum is lying in some of his statements, Ross Greenburg is still telling it for a fact!!!
5th Article - by Paul Magno - June 14, 2010 http://insidefights.com/2010/06/14/e...pacquiao-bout/ & 6th Article – by Lance Pugmire – July 28, 2010http://teampilipinas.info/2010/07/floyd-mayweather-jr-camp-responds-to.html
Is all about the Ellerbe statement, so same response as with the 4th Article… ELLERBE CLEARLY INDICATED THAT ARUM IS THE ONE LYING AND THAT THE PRESIDENT OF HBO ROSS GREEBURG IS TELLING THE TRUTH….
Now I suggest you read this links:
[http://www.************.com/2010/07/...ucks-pacquiao/
http://boxing.fanhouse.com/2010/07/2...ao-negotiatio/
http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/box...ory?id=5412488
http://www.secondsout.com/features/m...id-take-place-
http://forum.philboxing.com/viewtopi...f=102&t=174188
http://www.examiner.com/boxing-in-na...-any-airtime-1
http://www.examiner.com/boxing-in-na...fight-pacquiao
http://www.examiner.com/boxing-in-na...-pants-on-fire
http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/box...dan&id=5758959
http://sports.yahoo.com/box/news?slu...loydrant090310
http://sports.yahoo.com/box/news?slu...dducking072710
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/27/sp...r=1&ref=boxing
http://www.examiner.com/boxing-in-na...ao-super-fight

[LeadUppercut]

1st Article - David Mayo a known Floyd ****rider said in his article:
http://www.mlive.com/mayweather/inde...e_over_ma.html

“I was tipped off....."
I now know that David can see the future, maybe I should call him up for an advice in future horsing tips…

What is your point with that silly comment? He was given inside information, which just so happened to play out exactly as foretold.

I mean come on, why would you even bring that up?

That is damning for Bob Arum.

Did you even read the article? Or are you just helping me out of kindness?

This is just an example that he was just SPECULATING WITHOUT PROOF, he’s an outsider looking in wherein his only grasp for truth is his knowledge of how the Mayweather’s think and do their business, maybe that’s what you get from hanging to Floyd’s balls too often…

So fkn what? WHAT IS YOUR POINT?

Bob Arum lied, and the writer is speculating why.

What would you suggest he do genius? Ask Bob Arum?

I have no idea why you made those two points about the first article, the first article categorically proves that Bob Arum lied. WTF are you on?

2nd Article – by CJ James (Contributor) on July 21, 2010, [url]THIS CAME FROM MARLEY HIMSELF, NOTE THE DATE IT WAS PUBLISHED
http://www.examiner.com/boxing-in-na...the-cold-sauce

So what? Marley is a Top Rank guy and well-known Manny ****-rider.

Did Marley write a retraction denying his earlier comments?

Marley stated this.....

Arum's claims of "negotiations" and "agreements" were phony.....Arum completely and utterly exaggerated all claims of "agreements," "deals," "contracts," and "negotiations."

And Bob Arum himself confirmed it.....
http://www.boxingscene.com/?m=show&id=29293
http://www.boxingscene.com/?m=show&id=29324

3rd Article - By Joe Wilson July 25, 2010, http://ringsidereport.com/?p=3897 excerpts from the article:

“According to Arum, weeks ago negotiations were going well with Team Mayweather, however, now we know that was just speculations......

Clearly this guy is also SPECULATING, quoting news that we already read, he is also an outsider looking in with no real source at all…..

Firstly, so fkn what, are you serious ?

" quoting news that we have already read " ?

Are you even aware what you said there? Dude, if he was "quoting news that we have already read"..... THEN WAKE UP !!
1.) Don't blame the writer if he is just repeating common knowledge
2.) WAKE UP!! Where there is smoke there is fire, it is funny that you point out that the writer was just repeating "news that we have already read".

Obviously you are correct, the writer is well-aware that there were no official negotiations, he stated that himself earlier in the article. In fact, he actually referred to the "negotiations" themselves, as speculation.

And BTW, the guy that is best described by your earlier comments ..... "an outsider looking in with no real source at all"..... is Ross Greenburg.

Unless you call Bob Arum a credible source.

Guy, I have no idea where you think that you are going with this.

Another one…
“After the dominating performance “Money” Mayweather displayed over Shane Mosley.....

Now he is quoting sources without naming names… Hmmmm, but atleast he accepted the fact that Ross was directly involve in the “negotiation”…

YOU BADLY MISSED THE POINT

The writer is finding it highly amusing that Arum did not even attempt to contact the people that he was "negotiating" with. Instead, he fired off a ****ty offer through Greenburg that he knew would not even be considered. Nobody is denying that, we are well aware of that fact.

Stop trying to prove that Arum lied.....
1.) it is fkn obvious that he lied
2.) that's my job, go find your own

4th Article - Monday, July 19, 2010, http://www.nowboxing.com/2010/07/bob...atement/12120/ excerpts from the article:
“Here are the facts,” said Ellerbe.....

So from Ellerbe’s comment about history telling us who is lying, he could be referring to Bob Arum who is well known for his famous quote: “Yesterday I was Lying, today I am telling the truth.” So with this statement Ellerbe was clearly avoiding burning bridges with the HBO President and referred to Arum as the one who’s lying. But both Arum and Ross made it clear that a 2nd negotiation really took place, so if Arum is lying in some of his statements, Ross Greenburg is still telling it for a fact!!!

What a truly childish way to twist Ellerbe's statement. You know full well that Ellerbe did not state the words that you just put into his mouth. You know full well that Ellerbe was making a blanket statement that "there were no negotiations"

Stop being dishonest, it exposes your real motives. Pac-boy

Seriously, that was weak. That comment you made was a cheap suit, you would have been better to leave it out, or go naked

5th Article - by Paul Magno - June 14, 2010 http://insidefights.com/2010/06/14/e...pacquiao-bout/ & 6th Article – by Lance Pugmire – July 28, 2010http://teampilipinas.info/2010/07/floyd-mayweather-jr-camp-responds-to.html
Is all about the Ellerbe statement, so same response as with the 4th Article… ELLERBE CLEARLY INDICATED THAT ARUM IS THE ONE LYING AND THAT THE PRESIDENT OF HBO ROSS GREEBURG IS TELLING THE TRUTH….

BULL**** !!

STOP BEING SO DISHONEST !!

Ellerbe said NO SUCH THING !!

Ellerbe said this..... " there were NO negotiations "

Stop trying to twist Ellerbe's words.

And what about these guys, how are you going to twist their words?.....

6 people, belonging to 3 completely different business organisations, each of those people having first-hand information - 4 of whom would be ABSOLUTELY CRITICAL to that fight being made - ALL, categorically stated that..... "there were no official negotiations" !!

Debate is fine, but you are going to have to get up pretty early in the morning to bull**** me kid.

Now I suggest you read this links:
[http://www.************.com/2010/07/...ucks-pacquiao/
http://boxing.fanhouse.com/2010/07/2...ao-negotiatio/
http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/box...ory?id=5412488
http://www.secondsout.com/features/m...id-take-place-
http://forum.philboxing.com/viewtopi...f=102&t=174188
http://www.examiner.com/boxing-in-na...-any-airtime-1
http://www.examiner.com/boxing-in-na...fight-pacquiao
http://www.examiner.com/boxing-in-na...-pants-on-fire
http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/box...dan&id=5758959
http://sports.yahoo.com/box/news?slu...loydrant090310
http://sports.yahoo.com/box/news?slu...dducking072710
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/27/sp...r=1&ref=boxing
http://www.examiner.com/boxing-in-na...ao-super-fight

I am at work, but I will read them and respond later.

Instead of twisting words, and claiming that something is untrue, just because a slight speculation is tightly wedged between two facts.....

Explain this.....

HERE IS BOB ARUM LYING TO YOU.....Nobody denies that Arum publicly stated on numerous occasions that he personally negotiated a deal with GBP, who forwarded it to Mayweather for approval. Then he placed a two week " deadline " on the table, even going to the trouble of putting a count-down timer on the Top Rank website.....
http://www.boxingscene.com/?m=show&id=29293

HERE IS BOB ARUM ADMITTING IT.....Then, after Bob Arum's conference call, Schaefer immediately released a statement which forced Arum to admit that both him and Ross Greenburg had NEVER spoken with anyone from GBP.....
http://www.boxingscene.com/?m=show&id=29324

[ALG United]

Instead of twisting words, and claiming that something is untrue, just because a slight speculation is tightly wedged between two facts.....

Explain this.....

HERE IS BOB ARUM LYING TO YOU.....Nobody denies that Arum publicly stated on numerous occasions that he personally negotiated a deal with GBP, who forwarded it to Mayweather for approval. Then he placed a two week " deadline " on the table, even going to the trouble of putting a count-down timer on the Top Rank website.....
http://www.boxingscene.com/?m=show&id=29293

HERE IS BOB ARUM ADMITTING IT.....Then, after Bob Arum's conference call, Schaefer immediately released a statement which forced Arum to admit that both him and Ross Greenburg had NEVER spoken with anyone from GBP.....
http://www.boxingscene.com/?m=show&id=29324

Hey *****, do you remember what the thread is all about, this is not about Bob Arum lying, I don't care what the f**** Arum said, he was a lawyer that turned into a promoter so lying maybe is second nature to him. But this thread is about the HBO President, Ross Greenburg's actions and reactions during the so called 2nd nego!!! I never twisted what Ellerbe said, but if you were reading those articles that you presented Ellerbe didn't vehemently and categorically pointed at Ross as the lying b*****, he was implying more towards Arum's direction which me personally i don't care about. You are so fixated at Arum lying that you totally ignored Ross, Ross made a public statement and Ross said there was a 2nd Negotiation and I believe him more than Ellerbe, Haymon, Schaefer and Arum combined. Ross has done this before, negotiating for two parties making himself a mediator, so it's not valid for you to say that he is an outsider because Ross was there smack in the middle!! And who will give us an unbiased information more between the two opposing parties, ofcorz it's the mediator!!! Maybe you are more inclined to believe in Ellerbe rather than Ross, i can respect that, coz now it's a question on which side of the coin you're on... About this article, http://www.examiner.com/boxing-in-na...the-cold-sauce, yes Marley didn't retract from his previous article about Arum lying but he stated in this one, "According to Greenburg, whose only goal was to bring the parties together so they could make a deal, he was busy from May 2, through June 2 and or on about to July 2, trying to get the two camps in sycn so a bout contract could be written up and made ready for signatures of Floyd and Manny." So clearly he was riding on Greenburg's statements.. We may agree to disagree but this is my take on this!!!

[PAKYO]

With all this hoopla who is a liar, there's only one person everyone here acknowledges is telling the truth.

"Both times, the fight was very close to being made. And, the second time around, you know, all that I can say is that you would have to ask Floyd Mayweather why the fight wasn't made. To this day, I really don't know why Floyd decided that he didn't want the fight any more in the fall," - Ross Greenburg

From what i've read in all the discussion here, everyone lied except Ross Greenburg.

Floyd really don't want to fight.

/end thread

[LeadUppercut]

Hey *****, do you remember what the thread is all about, this is not about Bob Arum lying, I don't care what the f**** Arum said, he was a lawyer that turned into a promoter so lying maybe is second nature to him.....

This, we agree on.

Bob Arum has been doing this for 40 years.

But this thread is about the HBO President, Ross Greenburg's actions and reactions during the so called 2nd nego!!! I never twisted what Ellerbe said, but if you were reading those articles that you presented Ellerbe didn't vehemently and categorically pointed at Ross as the lying b*****, he was implying more towards Arum's direction which me personally i don't care about. You are so fixated at Arum lying that you totally ignored Ross.....

I understand that it's about the pres, that's why I'm here

Maybe you/me misunderstood the implication from Ellerbe.....

You said "he was implying more towards Arum's direction".....

WTF? No way, I'm sorry if I gave you the wrong impression somehow. I'll have to read back. No way, I absolutely know, that Ellerbe was directly accusing Bob Arum of lying, and in no way whatsoever implicated Ross Greenburg.....

Maybe we got our wires crossed there?

But, that's really my whole point.

Here is your problem.....
" You are so fixated at Arum lying that you totally ignored Ross..... "

No way, it's the other way around bro.

You, are so fixated with Ross that you just don't seem to understand the role that Bob Arum played in this, or understand what effect it had.

And I am also sure that you are overstating Ross Greenburg's role in this "negotiation", and in any other "negotiation" that he has been officially involved with, or should I say "party to".

The most technically correct way to describe Ross Greenburg's involvement in a standard negotiation - say for example, the one involving Manny/Floyd last December - would be "party to" the negotiation, and nothing more.

Bob Arum is steering the Manny-ship, not Ross Greenburg.

Greenburg's usual role is to arrange/confirm dates/figures, and very little else. Exactly like the role he played last December, in the only actual negotiation that has ever taken place between Pacquiao and Mayweather.

....., Ross made a public statement and Ross said there was a 2nd Negotiation and I believe him more than Ellerbe, Haymon, Schaefer and Arum combined......

That is insane.....

6 people, belonging to 3 completely different business organisations, each of those people having first-hand information - 4 of whom would be ABSOLUTELY CRITICAL to that fight being made - ALL, categorically stated that..... "there were no official negotiations" !!

And, Bob Arum lied.....

A "deadline" that Arum negotiated with GBP is about to expire.....
http://www.boxingscene.com/?m=show&id=29293

The very next day, Arum is forced to admit that he never even spoke with GBP....
http://www.boxingscene.com/?m=show&id=29324

Bob Arum publicly stated that he was working on a proposal to forward to GBP. It took nearly THREE WEEKS to get that proposal together - WTF? And when Arum eventually stated through the media that he had forwarded the proposal to GBP, he immediately slapped a two week deadline on the offer.

That's it !!

No meetings, no talks, no agreements, no contracts, no deals, NOTHING..... and no offer of negotiation.

Who the hell makes a ****ty offer that has already been rejected, and leaves no room at all for any kind of negotiation? That's not really how they did things the first time around. Come to think of it, I have never actually heard of a high-profile fight being made like that

It actually sounds ridiculous if you think about it.

And the mediator that TR/GBP used last time walked both parties through the process, Greenburg was just an errand boy with a ****ty offer that Arum knew would be rejected. Just like it states here.....
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/4...before-ellerbe

Ross has done this before, negotiating for two parties making himself a mediator, so it's not valid for you to say that he is an outsider because Ross was there smack in the middle!! And who will give us an unbiased information more between the two opposing parties, ofcorz it's the mediator!!! Maybe you are more inclined to believe in Ellerbe rather than Ross, i can respect that, coz now it's a question on which side of the coin you're on...

He was never a mediator.

He made a phone call to Haymon, whilst Bob Arum played games with the media insisting that he was personally negotiating with GBP.....
http://www.boxingscene.com/?m=show&id=29293

Team Mayweather publicly denied that the calls to Haymon were official "negotiations". How the hell could a deal possibly be made by errand boy Greenburg simply making a phone call to Haymon, whilst a fake deadline expired that Arum insisted he personally negotiated with GBP.....
http://www.boxingscene.com/?m=show&id=29324

A mediator will sit in a room with both parties and walk them through the process, and an official negotiation could easily take days. Greenburg was just an errand boy, and nothing more.

No meetings, no talks, no agreements, no contracts, no deals, NOTHING.....
and..... no offer of negotiation !!

http://www.examiner.com/boxing-in-na...the-cold-sauce, yes Marley didn't retract from his previous article about Arum lying but he stated in this one, "According to Greenburg, whose only goal was to bring the parties together so they could make a deal, he was busy from May 2, through June 2 and or on about to July 2, trying to get the two camps in sycn so a bout contract could be written up and made ready for signatures of Floyd and Manny." So clearly he was riding on Greenburg's statements.

Busy? Does Greenburg mean that he received a phone call from Arum on May 2nd? I am sure that is correct.

He negotiated with nobody.

The "deadline"..... was negotiated by Bob Arum with GBP, although GBP categorically deny that
http://www.boxingscene.com/?m=show&id=29293

THE DAY AFTER THE DEADLINE EXPIRED, Arum made his conference call.....
http://www.boxingscene.com/?m=show&id=29324

But you think that errand boy Greenburg acted as mediator in an official negotiation, without leaving his office, or attending a single meeting with either party..... and he did it all in less than 24-hours?

And who did he negotiate with? Not one single person on the face of the planet earth - including our friend Bob Arum - attended any of those meetings, or discussions.

No meetings, no talks, no agreements, no contracts, no deals, NOTHING..... just a fake deadline, that was placed on a ****ty offer, which happened to be clearly stamped "NO NEGOTIATION"

We may agree to disagree but this is my take on this!!!

Then, we disagree.

There were no official negotiations.

Arum is Manny's promoter, and he told me for 5 weeks that he was personally negotiating with GBP....
http://www.boxingscene.com/?m=show&id=29293

But then Schaefer released a statement that forced Arum to admit that both him and Ross Greenburg had NEVER spoken with anyone from GBP.....
http://www.boxingscene.com/?m=show&id=29324

The "deadline" was bull****, so obviously it is not possible for official negotiations to have taken place.

And, I stand by this comment.....

BTW bro, a lot of people know what's going on. And, I bet that both Ellerbe and Schaefer have made sure that Greenburg is up to speed now.

Although, it is uncanny that a man in his position could find himself manipulated like that. Let's just assume that Greenburg knows a little more about the business of boxing than he did a few weeks ago, and leave it there. Otherwise, there will undoubtedly be "conspiracy theorist" accusations flying around the room.

Then again, I assume that everybody here realises that Ross Greenburg has just as much to gain from this as Bob Arum? Neither HBO nor Top Rank have any control over Mayweather, and Manny is a money-making machine.

Greenburg got "lucky", because now Manny can make him lots more money before he has to risk his marketability against Mayweather.

Ross "Lucky" Greenburg is almost guaranteed to double his revenue over the next 12 months with 2 sure-fire windfalls before Mayweather.

Margarito is next, and then it will be Cotto.

That's just how it is.

Smarten up guys. Bob Arum has been doing this for longer than most of you have been alive.

[LeadUppercut]

Margarito is next, and then it will be Cotto.

That's just how it is.

WARRRRR Manny btw, do a number on the bum.

[GRUSTLER]

Bob probably mentioned something to Greenburg and made
an offer but Team Mayweather didn't bother to follow up
because it was not a serious offer in their eyes. Don't think
Greenburg is lying but he played a part in supporting Arum's
claims that there was in fact some sort of communication
going on. Arum made it out like they were going in 24/7
to make it happen but that wasn't the case. Why would
people think Floyd would not want to make the fight happen
if Pacquiao truly accepted everything? I been around, met
alot of different people and traveled many places and one
thing I learned being born and raised in NY is that you have
to be on point and that means knowing when to spot someone
that is full of **** and the way Arum was carrying on like he
really cared to make the fight happen but meanwhile setting
Pac up with Margarito makes it hard for me to believe that
Arum was fully dedicated to making the fight but prefer US
to think so. Everything is coming out in the wash. Mosley
went to Bob Arum personally and said "I'm no longer with
Golden Boy so lets start working together" That shows how
much dislike Arum has for Golden Boy. that alone shows me
that Arum is not going to be diligent in putting together the
fight. Floyd and Manny are going to have to want to make
it happen.

On that note. I'm done with this debate. Everything
is revealed in time.

[Sonic Flood]

*****S knows more better than the HBO President... HBO President and Oscar said themselves there were negotations..

Elleber and the crackhead Sr. said there were no negotations. No wonder how *****S also believe there were no negotations

[jiraiyasama]

Floyd should leave the country