Stop calling Victor Ortiz a pushover.

[JBell11]

I see a lot of people mad at Devon because he wants Ortiz over Kotelnik.

Ortiz is a better fighter than Kotelnik. Alexander shouldnt be knocked for a Ortiz fight.

So explain why is Ortiz-Alexander such a bad fight?


EDIT- Why was this thread deleted? I broke no rules. Im not trolling and Im not flaming. So why was this thread deleted?

Not me..I like the idea, I think Ortiz stock has been on the come-up! He's showed great technique and discipline. I think a Alexander vs Ortiz would be amazing. However; as a fan of Alexander AND Ortiz I'd like them to see them face Kotelnik and Maidana, respectively.

[BoxerDood]

No the point is. Kotelnik was looked at as a tune up. Why fight him again? Ortiz is a great fight.

Perhaps because what was supposed to be a tuneup ended up being the most challenging fight of his life, and very controversial? I have no problem with Alexander-Ortiz, but Kotelnik certainly deserves a rematch.

[johncods]

I'd take ortiz over alexander.

[B.U.R.N.E.R]

Whether he deserves a rematch is irrelevant. They are NOT fighting him again. Make zero sense.

Ortiz
Khan
Bradley
Maidana

Bigger fish to fry.

[B.U.R.N.E.R]

Whether he deserves a rematch is irrelevant. They are NOT fighting him again. Make zero sense.

Ortiz
Khan
Bradley
Maidana

Bigger fish to fry.

[Dave Rado]

I rescored it for Kotelnik. Lets not act like Kotelnik is the second coming. The triangle theory was pointless.

Alexander was the Champion. He can fight Ortiz. And yes the fight was looked at as a tune up. Did it turn pout that way no? Styles make fights as we saw.

Hes not fighting him again so people need to let it go.

I said nothing about any triangle theory. I didn't say the fact that Kotelnik beat Maidana proves that he also would beat Ortiz. But the fact is that he has a far better resume than Ortiz at this point, is rated far higher by most of the respected independent rankings such as The Ring's and boxingscene's; his win over Maidana is far better than anything on Ortiz's resume currently, and in most people's opinions, he deserved to win the title when he fought Alexander. Put all that together and he's far more deserving of a shot at this point than Ortiz is.

And the fact that it's apparently not going to happen is irrelevant. The point is that he is rightly being criticised for not giving Kotelnik a rematch. You may as well say that Haye isn't going to fight a top Heavyweight next, so people need to let it go and stop criticising Haye. If a boxer deserves to be criticised then he should be criticised. Your thread didn't say "Given that Alexander won't give Kotelnik a rematch, is Ortiz a good alternative?" Yes he's a good alternative, but that doesn't change the fact that he's ducking Kotelnik, and he deserves to be criticised for it.

[B.U.R.N.E.R]

I said nothing about any triangle theory. I didn't say the fact that Kotelnik beat Maidana proves that he also would beat Ortiz. But the fact is that he has a far better resume than Ortiz at this point, is rated far higher by most of the respected independent rankings such as The Ring's and boxingscene's; his win over Maidana is far better than anything on Ortiz's resume currently, and in most people's opinions, he deserved to win the title when he fought Alexander. Put all that together and he's far more deserving of a shot at this point than Ortiz is.

And the fact that it's apparently not going to happen is irrelevant. The point is that he is rightly being criticised for not giving Kotelnik a rematch. You may as well say that Haye isn't going to fight a top Heavyweight next, so people need to let it go and stop criticising Haye. If a boxer deserves to be criticised then he should be criticised. Your thread didn't say "Given that Alexander won't give Kotelnik a rematch, is Ortiz a good alternative?" Yes he's a good alternative, but that doesn't change the fact that he's ducking Kotelnik, and he deserves to be criticised for it.

Far more deserving? He didnt even deserve the first shot Alexander gave him. He only got it because he signed with King.

No its like criticizing Haye for Vitali over Wlad. I cant knock Alexander for fighting a better fighter. Thats exactly what Kotelnik is. His team is not going to put a 23 year old Alexander back in there with Kotelnik when fights with Maidana, Ortiz, Khan, and Bradley can be made. It was a close fight that could go either way. It was not easy to score at all. So we have to stop acting like this was the biggest robbery in boxing history.

It wasnt.

Kotelnik is a good fighter. If hes as good as his fans think then he'll work hius way to a title shot again. But come on man this kid aint fighting him again.

[Dave Rado]

Far more deserving? He didnt even deserve the first shot Alexander gave him. He only got it because he signed with King.

He was the highest ranked contender by far who was available for Alexander to fight at that time. Of course he deserved his shot. The fact that he had to sign with King in order to get it just shows how US-centric the outlook of US fighters is. Only US fans thought of it as a tune-up. Kotelnik was a top 5 fighter then, and is a top 5 fighter now. Corley qualifies as a tune-up. Kotelnik doesn't.

As for your list:

If he fights Bradley next no one will criticise him, because Bradley is the #1 Jr Welterweight. But that fight looks like falling through due to politics.

Khan and Maidana are fighting each other in December and won't be available until March or so.

Ortiz is the only one of the fighters you mentioned who is even in the picture for Alexander's next fight, assuming his fight with Bradley falls through. And Ortiz at this point is far less deserving of a shot than Kotelnik is.

[jrosales13]

Perhaps because what was supposed to be a tuneup ended up being the most challenging fight of his life, and very controversial? I have no problem with Alexander-Ortiz, but Kotelnik certainly deserves a rematch.

I said nothing about any triangle theory. I didn't say the fact that Kotelnik beat Maidana proves that he also would beat Ortiz. But the fact is that he has a far better resume than Ortiz at this point, is rated far higher by most of the respected independent rankings such as The Ring's and boxingscene's; his win over Maidana is far better than anything on Ortiz's resume currently, and in most people's opinions, he deserved to win the title when he fought Alexander. Put all that together and he's far more deserving of a shot at this point than Ortiz is.

And the fact that it's apparently not going to happen is irrelevant. The point is that he is rightly being criticised for not giving Kotelnik a rematch. You may as well say that Haye isn't going to fight a top Heavyweight next, so people need to let it go and stop criticising Haye. If a boxer deserves to be criticised then he should be criticised. Your thread didn't say "Given that Alexander won't give Kotelnik a rematch, is Ortiz a good alternative?" Yes he's a good alternative, but that doesn't change the fact that he's ducking Kotelnik, and he deserves to be criticised for it.

He was the highest ranked contender by far who was available for Alexander to fight at that time. Of course he deserved his shot. The fact that he had to sign with King in order to get it just shows how US-centric the outlook of US fighters is. Only US fans thought of it as a tune-up. Kotelnik was a top 5 fighter then, and is a top 5 fighter now. Corley qualifies as a tune-up. Kotelnik doesn't.

As for your list:

If he fights Bradley next no one will criticise him, because Bradley is the #1 Jr Welterweight. But that fight looks like falling through due to politics.

Khan and Maidana are fighting each other in December and won't be available until March or so.

Ortiz is the only one of the fighters you mentioned who is even in the picture for Alexander's next fight, assuming his fight with Bradley falls through. And Ortiz at this point is far less deserving of a shot than Kotelnik is.

Exactly right.

I agree with everything in the bold.

[AKATheMack]

The only person who should consider Ortiz a horrible pick is Devon Alexander. Ortiz beats Alexander down.