Comments Thread For: Victor Ortiz Looks "Vicious" - Batters Harris in Three

[tyger]

Good to see Ortiz is getting his career back on track even though I questioned Vivian's chin since Maussa dented it.

[_original_]

woot woot!

lol @ all the haters still talking shi.t about Victor quitting in the Maidana fight

if you guys think he would quit again, ask yourself this....why is Ortiz still fighting and calling out all the big names? because he's looking to redeem himself, the last thing he would do is quit again

[TOBYLEE1]

Vic sucess will be if he fights like he fought Nate. He had Harris and got hit with a right/left combo that made re-access his attack cause it really got his attention. Vic will be a problem for any of the top JrWW cause he can stay in the pocket and deliver combos with close counterpunching

[LeadUppercut]

That is just 2 different situation that you not taking into context on why the quit. One quit not cuz he wasn't tough or didn't have heart or that he was just getting beat up and and plain quit. No Duran was more of a mental thing more being a mental midget getting frustrated than it was aboutl the lack of heart and toughness. Ortiz is about the lack of heart and toughness. He shouldn't be taking this kind of punishment? He is too young to be getting hit like that?

The 2 scenarios are apples and oranges.

No way. In those two examples, the principle is exactly the same.

In ALL sport, you have the physical, and you have the mental aspect.

I am a killer on the pool table, until there is money involved

The main difference between the two, is that one was a green kid.

Lets wait and see what a more mature, battle-hardened, Victor Ortiz can do.

He wants Maidana now - personally, I think its too soon - but he has done a lot of soul-searching since that loss, and he may have learned a lot about himself since that fight.

He has the skills to beat Maidana, that is clearly evident..... it is his ability to control the fight, and deal with adversity, that is the issue.

He has time on his side. I would have a 4-fight plan for Ortiz, culminating in a title bid in about 18 months time. Vic still has a lot to learn, and it would have been nice to see him further along before butting heads with Maidana.

Not many, if any, punch like Maidana at 140. Battle hardened vets - like Harris as a starting point for example - is what Ortiz needs from here.

Just like Canelo with Baldomir.

I could be wrong, just my two cents.....

[LeadUppercut]

I've heard a lot of stories about fighters who get knocked down once in a fight by a hard shot and they get up to win by KO, but when you ask them if they can remember anything after the first knock down, they remember nothing. They don't remember getting up and they don't remember winning by KO. Ortiz was saying the same exact thing after his fight with Maidana, that he didn't remember anything after the first round. In the training room he was apologizing to Danny Garcia because he thought he was knocked out in the first round. And he thought Max Kellerman was lying and making **** up when Max told him the crazy **** he was saying in the ring after he lost to Maidana. He didn't remember a single thing. The kid was too punch-drunk to take seriously.

Plus I think it's more than obvious he won't quit again. The next time he's getting bombed on you would have to be a complete idiot to think that Ortiz won't be thinking about the last time he got accused of quitting. lol I know for a fact that will be the only thing on his mind if he's getting bombed on again.

It's like dropping a baseball when you don't use both hands to catch it. Your coach humiliates the **** out of you in front of everyone to make sure you never forget to use both hands when catching a fly ball again. So if you really think Ortiz would quit again, especially after doing it in the spotlight...lol You'd have to be a dumb ass.

The only thing in question about Ortiz is his skills. His defensive skills specifically. If he's getting beat down again by non stop hay makers and can't find a defense to fall back on in order to recover he's going to take another serious loss. Only the next time he'll take the beating. I guarantee you that.

I am not so concerned about his skillset, and he is still developing..... it was his option taking, getting ****** in to Maidana's fight, and inabilty to adapt, that were more of a concern.

I have said before, Vic learnt two huge lessons in that fight, and both could serve him very well in future.

He was much more focused and patient with Harris, he fought his fight.

Yes, I know - Harris..... but the danger factor was there.

[LeadUppercut]

Yea people kill me with the " He quit once so that means he will quit again". How many times Cotto or Duran quit? Last time I checked it was one time. Vic will be ok he just has to follow the game plan that is laid out for him cause he cant be vicious against everyone.

And, both of those guys were vet's, Ortiz is a kid.

It was a mental issue, and _original_ has a real good point here.....

if you guys think he would quit again, ask yourself this....why is Ortiz still fighting and calling out all the big names? because he's looking to redeem himself, the last thing he would do is quit again

Ortiz ws forced to have a real hard think about life, Maidana forced him to do a lot of soul-searching since that fight. Well, he got up, and he got back in the ring..... and he is demanding another chance to walk through adversity.

Maidana is a fkn beast man, what a warrior he is. He has proved that he will walk through fire to get to the gates of hell.

Well, you learn a lot from your losses, and Im betting that Ortiz' mind will be much more durable the next time he has to answer some questions.

My money is on Vic to get up and blast away like a champ next time.

[lefthook2daliva]

baby steps victor...................baby steps...........

Lol. x2

[Alex_Hayden]

I am not so concerned about his skillset, and he is still developing..... it was his option taking, getting ****** in to Maidana's fight, and inabilty to adapt, that were more of a concern.

But see that's what I classify as "skills." If Ortiz was a complete fighter he would have been able to adapt but he couldn't. He wasn't just eating flush shots against Maidana he was eating flush power shots. At no point did he ever successfully get out of the way of those bombs.

Look at Floyd Mayweather Jr and someone like Julio Cesar Chavez. I think we all can agree that they are two completely different fighters on offense AND defense. But one thing they had in common was that it was incredibly difficult to land flush power shots on either of them. They both had their own instinctive defenses.

Plus it looks like he get's too complacent at times. I say complacent because when he knocks his guy down for the first time he either gets hit hard immediately after, or gets knocked down immediately after. It happens a lot in his fights. It's like he forgets he has a wounded animal in front him.

And don't get me started on his lack of body punching. He obviously has the power to shatter rib cages on the inside and I haven't seen a fight yet where he throws at least one hook to the body that DOESN'T fold his opponent in half momentarily. Cause he does it but only rarely.

Vic is definitely gonna need to learn how to break a guys body down before moving up to 147. Those big kids at 147 won't go down from just one shot to the chin. You're gonna have to beat the victory out of those kids if you want to stop them.

[LeadUppercut]

But see that's what I classify as "skills." If Ortiz was a complete fighter he would have been able to adapt but he couldn't. He wasn't just eating flush shots against Maidana he was eating flush power shots. At no point did he ever successfully get out of the way of those bombs.

Look at Floyd Mayweather Jr and someone like Julio Cesar Chavez. I think we all can agree that they are two completely different fighters on offense AND defense. But one thing they had in common was that it was incredibly difficult to land flush power shots on either of them. They both had their own instinctive defenses.

Plus it looks like he get's too complacent at times. I say complacent because when he knocks his guy down for the first time he either gets hit hard immediately after, or gets knocked down immediately after. It happens a lot in his fights. It's like he forgets he has a wounded animal in front him.

And don't get me started on his lack of body punching. He obviously has the power to shatter rib cages on the inside and I haven't seen a fight yet where he throws at least one hook to the body that DOESN'T fold his opponent in half momentarily. Cause he does it but only rarely.

Vic is definitely gonna need to learn how to break a guys body down before moving up to 147. Those big kids at 147 won't go down from just one shot to the chin. You're gonna have to beat the victory out of those kids if you want to stop them.

Aaah ok, we're on the same page then

I just see Vic as a kid who is still learning, he is a work-in-progress, as opposed to the finished article.

Most of his problems in that fight were due to inexperience.

Experience is the key to most things in life, I want to see how he develops in his next 3-4 fights.

[Alex_Hayden]

Aaah ok, we're on the same page then

I just see Vic as a kid who is still learning, he is a work-in-progress, as opposed to the finished article.

Most of his problems in that fight were due to inexperience.

Experience is the key to most things in life, I want to see how he develops in his next 3-4 fights.

I agree about the lack of experience. You could see a lot almost come full circle for Ortiz since the Maidana fight. Vic has displayed his boxing skill as of late, but in the Harris fight he showed just by his body language alone, that he still has that ability to be aggressive. But now he's in the perfect division to learn more. He's one of my favorites right now so I'm looking forward to seeing him in bigger fights.

Hopefully they give him Kotelnik next because Kotelnik is as solid as anyone in that division. There is NO WAY Kotelnik gets stopped before 12 rounds without a powerful performance, which Ortiz is capable of. Ortiz won't stop Kote by head hunting most likely, it's possible, but Kotelnik is defensively skilled enough to stay guarded enough for 12 rounds. I really believe Ortiz is really going to have to exercise his body punching if he wants to definitely stop Kotelnik. It's a perfect fight for Ortiz to learn more and to see what a durable and strong fighter looks like in the ring.

If Ortiz breaks him down properly and earns a stoppage or KO, I'd say he'd be ready not only to take the 140 crown, but he'd be ready for the bigger kids at 147. If he only gets a decision that's fine too, but I think he's capable of more.