Only idiots think fighters 60 years on back would be competitive today

[Hous]

Terrible comparison, humans aren't machines that change that fast over time. Evolution takes millions of years and nutrition and training can only do so much.

Boxing is not a sport where speed or strength play such an important part that it overwhelms the fight. Skill is at utmost important as is heart and toughness.

No science, nutrition or modern training can give that to a fighter.

Actually its a good comparision because its not a comparison of advances in technology to human evolution as its a comparison of advances in technology to advances in science. Both are clearly correlated. I stated already boxers didn't evolve into being better fighters, but its science.

And about the studying tapes. Trust me, they study better quality tapes much more then they did 60 years ago. Back then they had maybe 1 or 2 fights recorded on ths ****ty film. Now they study training, professional fights, and amateur fights.

I dont understand how you can possibly counter these arguements. Ive quashed all the arguements. You guys are just hanging onto your fairy tales of the good ole days.

[Cuauhtémoc1520]

I already debunked the tall tale that fighting more often makes a better fighter.

Its a shocker you would say boxing hasnt changed in the past 100 years. Wow....

You love to mix up words don't you...

I said the TRAINING in boxing for the most part hasn't changed. yes it has changed some but the basics are the same for over 100 years.

Also fighting more often does make you better, it's called staying sharp. You think only fighting once or twice a year like most champions do today makes them better? You need to keep in fighting form, that's why you hear of "layoffs" and "ring rust" these things aren't made up phrases, they are true.

[BattlingNelson]

Well, i used the word bigger to focus more on the HW division, but I see where this is going. Your still not thinking about the benefits of science.

147lb boxers today have a more efficient muscle to fat ratio which helps them become stronger, faster and more efficient with energy (stanima). So yeah 147lbs fighters are superior of those of 60 years ago. Their bodies are more efficient.

It's very possible that modern nutrition is better although standard burger meals and take aways points in the other direction.

What you are missing is hunger. Hunger, desperation, will and determination. That to me is a huge difference. Back then fighters knew that if they lost they wouldn't be able to feed their families. That's not the case today. Compared to the old days people are likely lazier and less determined today. You cannot eat yourself to endless determination and will.



And evidence points to the contrary of another statement you made about badly conditioned fighters could go 30 rounds+ against equals. Battling Nelson and Ad Wolgast for example, fought 40 rounds in 1910 both averaging a punch-output of between 70-80 punches pr. round.

As a little bonusinfo Nelson was a marathonrunner and considered participating in the olympics. Badly conditioned? I think not.

[Cuauhtémoc1520]

Actually its a good comparision because its not a comparison of advances in technology to human evolution as its a comparison of advances in technology to advances in science. Both are clearly correlated. I stated already boxers didn't evolve into being better fighters, but its science.

And about the studying tapes. Trust me, they study better quality tapes much more then they did 60 years ago. Back then they had maybe 1 or 2 fights recorded on ths ****ty film. Now they study training, professional fights, and amateur fights.

I dont understand how you can possibly counter these arguements. Ive quashed all the arguements. You guys are just hanging onto your fairy tales of the good ole days.

Not at all you just don't know boxing like I do sorry...

I have been a trainer for almost 10 years now, studying under some "old school" guys and I can tell you that while I agree with you about the advances in technology, true boxing fans can see greatness simply because it's great. No matter the time period.

There is better film study but you would be surprised as to how little trainers actually use those tools to their advantages. Yes we look at film but it's not like we are taking full advantage of the modern day tools like you may think. Freddie Roach, considered the best trainer in the world looks at film but he has said it many, many times, that he comes in there with his game plan and that's what he's rolling with.

They are still heavybags, still speed bags, double end bags, jump rope, running and sparring.....that hasn't changed in over 100 years.

I agree with the heavier weight classes simply because Marciano like I said before, would not last long against someone like Klitchko because of the size difference but you put Marciano in there with someone of his own weight and size and I completely disagree he couldn't be great in todays day and age.

[Cuauhtémoc1520]

It's very possible that modern nutrition is better although standard burger meals and take aways points in the other direction.

What you are missing is hunger. Hunger, desperation, will and determination. That to me is a huge difference. Back then fighters knew that if they lost they wouldn't be able to feed their families. That's not the case today. Compared to the old days people are likely lazier and less determined today. You cannot eat yourself to endless determination and will.



And evidence points to the contrary of another statement you made about badly conditioned fighters could go 30 rounds+ against equals. Battling Nelson and Ad Wolgast for example, fought 40 rounds in 1910 both averaging a punch-output of between 70-80 punches pr. round.

As a little bonusinfo Nelson was a marathonrunner and considered participating in the olympics. Badly conditioned? I think not.

I agree 100% and I think they were better conditioned back in the day because they fought more often and had much worse conditions in which to fight in. Ali vs Fazier in Manila is one of the most brutal, violent, hardened fights you will ever see in your life. What those two men did that night, is something that might never be duplicated and I don't think there's a fighter today that has the heart and guts to do what they did.

Fighters today take knees, you never used to see that back in the day. Call it smart and call the old timers being ******, but when you fight a man willing to die in the ring and your not, it's a fight you can't win.

[TheGreatA]

Well, i used the word bigger to focus more on the HW division, but I see where this is going. Your still not thinking about the benefits of science.

You should've said that from the beginning.

147lb boxers today have a more efficient muscle to fat ratio which helps them become stronger, faster and more efficient with energy (stanima). So yeah 147lbs fighters are superior of those of 60 years ago. Their bodies are more efficient.

Pacquiao, Mayweather, maybe, and they aren't even big welterweights. But the rest?

Cotto and Clottey can hardly brag about their greater stamina as they have extreme difficulties going just 12 rounds. Same with Zab Judah.

Antonio Margarito is hardly fast, not to mention the recent "champ" Carlos Baldomir, who beat a far better athlete in Zab Judah.

These fighters look to have quite "efficient" bodies:







But as we know, that has never been the be all and end all of boxing:

[Guest]

Science makes all the difference. They grow boxers in vats these days.

True story.

[nathan_nall]

You love to mix up words don't you...

I said the TRAINING in boxing for the most part hasn't changed. yes it has changed some but the basics are the same for over 100 years.

Also fighting more often does make you better, it's called staying sharp. You think only fighting once or twice a year like most champions do today makes them better? You need to keep in fighting form, that's why you hear of "layoffs" and "ring rust" these things aren't made up phrases, they are true.

I honestly have no idea what the training was like long ago but I've heard of camps today where team members time the improvement in wind sprints so that they know when a fighter is peaking, like gaging the PRECISE moment a bottle of $5,000,000 (decent PPV payday) wine is at its peak drinkability. I thought it was lifting weights, cardio, and sparring. I had no idea it gets so complicated as judging when a fighter is reaching their peak performance level, so a not to reach it a day before or a day after the fight, but to reach in precisesly as they enter the ring.

I think the fighting only every 4-8 months of today has more to do with an attempt to extend a career and the weight loss some fighters have to accomplish. Some of these guys rehydrate 10-15 pounds over night. YOu would have NEVER heard of old school fighters doing that, as squezing a LHW into a WW frame wasn't the practice back then.

[Amazinger]

given their condition. Our fighters today are bigger, stronger and faster then they ever were. Why? Because they aren't goinghave into it alone now, now they have researchers (nutritionist, fitness experts) who conduct research to find the most positive results. This allows them to find the maximum balance of muscle to body frame / weight for strength and speed. They now have tapes to study and research other fighters methods in detail. Fighters back then didn't have this luxery. Science makes the difference.

Humans make fables about the past neglecting logic, its natural.

I tend to agree....It's our nostalgia that says they will be competitive.

Also boxers and trainers of today have learned better boxing techniques since.

The boxers then does not punch harder than the boxers today.

[Biolink]

I think some of the heavyweights would have been competitive, but on the whole I agree that a lot of guys wouldn't be as good if they fight in this time where the fight game has evolved so much. Its an unpopular opinion, but to an extent it is true