Jake Lamotta In Todays Middleweight Era: How Easy Does He Reign?

[The Hammer]

Cerdan suffered an injured shoulder in the first round after a rough beating that LaMotta gave to him.

According to BoxRec, Cerdan was sent to the canvas with an illegal shove:

http://boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?hum...9033&cat=boxer

After that it was plain that something was wrong with Cerdan, who had suffered a left shoulder separation when he fell to the canvas from a shove in the first round. LaMotta damaged his left hand in the fifth round, but even in the ninth round he landed 104 blows, whereas Cerdan was scarcely throwing a punch. Cerdan's manager, Jo Longman, stopped the fight at the beginning of the tenth round.

Cerdan was a better boxer and didn't need to resort to dirty tactics like LaMotta. And unlike LaMotta, Cerdan was a classy guy who didn't beat up his wife and didn't throw fights because the mafia told him to do so.

LaMotta had a lot of losses to ordinary fighters. Cerdan has only 4 losses on his record.

"Jake Lamotta had a very ordinary career, except for his win over SRR"

LaMotta beat numerous top contenders and had a very impressive record of wins.

Ray Robinson
Marcel Cerdan
Holman Williams
Bert Lytell
Fritzie Zivic
Tommy Yarosz
Bob Satterfield
Jose Basora
Tony Janiro
Robert Villemain
Laurent Dauthuille
Tiberio Mitri
Bob Murphy
Joey DeJohn
George Costner
Jackie Wilson
Tommy Bell
Norman Hayes
Gene Hairston

are just some of the top names that he beat.

Most of those are very ordinary opponents, the only elite fighters he has wins over were were the smaller SRR and injured Cerdan. And SRR beat him 4 times after that, if I remember correctly, indicating SRR just had an off night.

Watch this smaller welterweight put a serious beating on the overrated middleweight LaMotta:

[Calilloyd]

According to BoxRec, Cerdan was sent to the canvas with a shove:

http://boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?hum...9033&cat=boxer



Cerdan was a better boxer and didn't need to resort to dirty tactics like LaMotta. And unlike LaMotta, Cerdan was a classy guy who didn't beat up his wife and didn't throw fights because the mafia told him to do so.

LaMotta had a lot of losses to ordinary fighters. Cerdan has only 4 losses on his record.



Most of those are very ordinary opponents, the only elite fighters he has wins over were were the smaller SRR and injured Cerdan. And SRR beat him 4 times after that, if I remember correctly, indicating SRR just had an off night.

Watch this smaller (welterweight champion) man put a serious beating on the overrated middleweight LaMotta:

You've been discredited badly in this debate. First you said Cerdan was "terminally ill". You just flat out lied. You always do that when a fight didn't go the way you wanted it too. You can never give the other fighter credit. It's a character flaw of yours. If you think those fighters were "ordinary" that speaks for itself. Anything else you say from this point means nothing. You clearly don't know what you're talking about and should stop embarrassing yourself further.


edit: that video you pulled, Robinson was not a welterweight for that particular fight. You can't even tell the truth about that.

[Steak]

Tunney, you do realise that the 'smaller welterweight champion' that youre mentioning(Ray Robinson) is widely considered the GREATEST FIGHTER OF ALL TIME, correct?

you saying that LaMotta=Pawel Wolak because he got beat by an (excellent) smaller man is like saying that Miguel Cotto=Alfonso Gomez because he got beat up by Pacquiao.

hell, the Cotto-Gomez comparison makes way more sense than your logic in this instance.

[The Hammer]

You've been discredited badly in this debate. First you said Cerdan was "terminally ill". You just flat out lied. You always do that when a fight didn't go the way you wanted it too. You can never give the other fighter credit. It's a character flaw of yours. Anything else you say from this point means nothing. You clearly don't know what you're talking about and should stop embarrassing yourself further.

I wasn't lying, I remember reading somewhere that Cerdan had a terminal illness. I'm going to look for it, and if I find the source, you owe me an apology.

But of course you won't apologize, because you have no honor Lloyd.

[The Hammer]

Tunney, you do realise that the 'smaller welterweight champion' that youre mentioning(Ray Robinson) is widely considered the GREATEST FIGHTER OF ALL TIME, correct?

you saying that LaMotta=Pawel Wolak because he got beat by an (excellent) smaller man is like saying that Miguel Cotto=Alfonso Gomez because he got beat up by Pacquiao.

hell, the Cotto-Gomez comparison makes way more sense than your logic in this instance.

No, I didn't say it because of that particular fight. It's because LaMotta lost to a lot of ordinary fighters too, and because his style was similar to Wolak.

[Calilloyd]

I wasn't lying, I remember reading somewhere that Cerdan had a terminal illness. I'm going to look for it, and if I find the source, you owe me an apology.

But of course you won't apologize, because you have no honor Lloyd.

Are you going to apologize for calling Lamotta's opponents "ordinary?" outside off SRR and Cerdan? When you know that's a lie? Practice what you preach, Tunney.

[TheGreatA]

According to BoxRec, Cerdan was sent to the canvas with a shove:

http://boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?hum...9033&cat=boxer

As I said, a rough beating. Cerdan was a physically strong fighter, who was used to man-handling opponents, but LaMotta roughed him up like no one else in the first round of the fight.

Cerdan was a better boxer and didn't need to resort to dirty tactics like LaMotta. And unlike LaMotta, Cerdan was a classy guy who didn't beat up his wife and didn't throw fights because the mafia told him to do so.

LaMotta wasn't a nice guy but I don't see what it has to do with this thread. You don't have to be a nice guy to be a great fighter. He had to throw a fight to get a title shot after 7 years of being the top ranked contender.

LaMotta had a lot of losses to ordinary fighters. Cerdan has only 4 losses on his record.

Cerdan also fought a far lower level of competition than LaMotta.

Most of those are very ordinary opponents, the only elite fighters he has wins over were were the smaller SRR and injured Cerdan. And SRR beat him 4 times after that, if I remember correctly, indicating SRR just had an off night.

What do you know about them?

All were top 10 ranked in a strong middleweight era, and Robinson, Cerdan, Williams and Zivic are hall of famers.

LaMotta and Robinson fought 6 times because they always had close fights. LaMotta won the second fight in which he knocked down Robinson, a huge upset at the time as LaMotta was relatively unknown while Robinson was unbeaten in 40 bouts. Robinson was again knocked in the third fight but came back to win the decision. The fifth fight was a razor-close split decision that could have gone LaMotta's way.

Watch this smaller (welterweight champion) man put a serious beating on the overrated middleweight LaMotta:

Watch the greatest fighter of all time and also a top 5 all-time great middleweight put a beating on a slowed down (Robinson said LaMotta was a lot faster in the mid 40's), weight-drained LaMotta who had given Robinson plenty of trouble throughout the bout.

[cleaner147]

the mw division sucks. only great fighter is martinez. pirog is pretty good but he will lose if he faces sergio

MW is stocked with talented guys such as Golovkin, N'Dam N'Jikam, Korobov, David Lemieux (and Guerrero and Jacobs.)

plus Felix Sturm is back!

also guys like Karmazin, Sylvester, Zbik make the division competive.

Martinez and Pirog are on the top.

Pwill and Pavlik doesnt want to fight at middleweight anymore like some sources claim so I dont count them.

[The Hammer]

Are you going to apologize about calling all of Lamotta's opponents "ordinary?" When you know that's a lie? Practice what you preach, Tunney.

Now you're lying. I didn't say they were ALL ordinary. Cerdan and SRR were great fighters.

I said LaMotta has losses to a number of ordinary fighters, and that some of the names ThGreatA mentioned as "great" wins were actually very ordinary, not elite, fighters.

[Calilloyd]

Now you're lying. I didn't say they were ALL ordinary. Cerdan and SRR were great fighters. I said LaMotta has losses to a number of ordinary fighters, and that some of the names ThGreatA mentioned as "great" wins were actually very ordinary, not elite, fighters.

Read it again. I edited it to outside of Robinson and Cerdan. That list was not full of "very ordinary fighters" How were they very ordinary? And he didn't say "great wins" he said very impressive. Can you prove they were not?