what you all might be forgetting about muhammad ali

[Wlad Klitschko]

Ali was a ducker......shyeah...I thought this was gonna be some sensible chat after a while but you're crazy fool.

you'll start whining about guys like bonavena when the heavy div is dead and your fighter thinks being a boxer involves stepping into politics.

if anyone's a sellout in terms of that its your boy

Wheres the fights that we want? They aren't happenning!!!!

Ali made them happen. HUGE fights the world still talks about.

Wlad and Vitaliy aren't doing that.

Ali didnt make them happen. Ali doesnt even know how to read. He was ruled too dumb for the army, they had to lower the standards for him to be drafted. Ali had nothing to do with the negotiating and was a puppet. Difference is no one feared Ali, he wasnt out there leaving people hanging over the rope, on their death bed like Wlad does. No one wants to get in the ring with Wlad, they get ruined. You think anyone wants a rematch with Vitali? Lennox hung em up after getting in the ring with Vitali, reportedly saying, "He is way too tough for me man. I am scared ****tless of him. I stay up late at night crying myself to sleep imagining him just keep coming. I hit him with everything I had. I was the best I ever was that night and he kept coming. He is not a man, he is a machine."

Blaming the Klitschko's for a guy turning down a 50/50 split.

[Marlin26]

Man there's a lot going on in this thread and I'm going to try and cover the big points that stood out for me.

1) Ali vs Frazier III: I've watched the fight about three or four times and every time I have Ali winning on the scorecards going into the 14th round. Ali danced and hit Frazier enough to win on the majority of the scorecards. The small work he did paid off against Frazier however Frazier still won about 2-4 rounds. I haven't watched the fight for awhile so I cant give an accurate description of what I scored it but I know for a fact that Ali won that fight.

2) The Klitchko's: People are raggin on these guys for "losing to journeymen fighters" and "just being big" but thats not it. They use their size to their advantage with a strong jab and powerful right hand. They aren't the most engaging style to watch but technically its genius and I respect them very much for conducting themselves well outside of the ring and inside of it, they are great fighters however they would not hold their own in the 70's. You can argue me on it and say I'm wrong but in your heart you know I'm right. Ali had more than just the Jab and technical advantage on his side, he was smart, he could mix it up, he threw a variety at punches at a speed thats unmatched these days.

3) Wlad Klitchko (the poster): No offence but man your making yourself look like a complete fool, now you might say "oh this is coming from a 16 year old go do kiddy stuff, ect. but no you gotta look at facts, plain and simple the Klitchko's are great fighters for this era however in Ali's Era they would have never claimed a world title. They would have absolutely given some of the fighters in that era fits and may have beaten them also. But against the top game of the time I believe they would fall short. Insulting Ali these days is pointless, there have been millions before you, and thousands more to come, you are a simple number in the Ali legacy. You question him, many questioned him and look where he ended up. With the title as Greatest of All Time. There's no stopping that man, he decided what he wanted to do and he accomplished it. I try to look past his racism and bigotry and see that he put himself to where he is today, he molded his legacy into what he wanted it to be.

Final Notes: Never watched Ali vs Norton, but I've heard many good things about it so I will definitely check it out, Frazier was a little past his prime when he fought Ali the 3rd time but Ali had been out of his prime since 66' so theres no argument there that the performance Ali made on that night was nothing short of grand.

[omarinbox]

Ali didnt make them happen. Ali doesnt even know how to read. He was ruled too dumb for the army, they had to lower the standards for him to be drafted. Ali had nothing to do with the negotiating and was a puppet. Difference is no one feared Ali, he wasnt out there leaving people hanging over the rope, on their death bed like Wlad does. No one wants to get in the ring with Wlad, they get ruined. You think anyone wants a rematch with Vitali? Lennox hung em up after getting in the ring with Vitali, reportedly saying, "He is way too tough for me man. I am scared ****tless of him. I stay up late at night crying myself to sleep imagining him just keep coming. I hit him with everything I had. I was the best I ever was that night and he kept coming. He is not a man, he is a machine."

Blaming the Klitschko's for a guy turning down a 50/50 split.

Credit where its DUE is all I'm saying.

Man up n stop b*tchin!

[jazluvr]

i just watched the Thrilla in Manilla last night, again, and what really happened at the end, was, Fraziers corner threw in the towel just before (the 14th round?) in betweeen rounds. Pretty sure it was the 14th. He was pissed too. He wanted to keep fighting. Both guys were dying of exhaustion, it was over 100ºf in the Phillipines that night. But he could hardly see. He had an eye problem for a long time, and Ali gave him a lot more that night.

Frazier was getting the better of Ali in those last couple rounds and getting close to a win. Had they not thrown in the towel, the scorecards very well could have went to Frazier. Ali was taking a lot of hard body shots and it showed. He was ready to drop.

[Lorily]

i just watched the Thrilla in Manilla last night, again, and what really happened at the end, was, Fraziers corner threw in the towel just before (the 14th round?) in betweeen rounds. Pretty sure it was the 14th. He was pissed too. He wanted to keep fighting. Both guys were dying of exhaustion, it was over 100ºf in the Phillipines that night. But he could hardly see. He had an eye problem for a long time, and Ali gave him a lot more that night.

Frazier was getting the better of Ali in those last couple rounds and getting close to a win. Had they not thrown in the towel, the scorecards very well could have went to Frazier. Ali was taking a lot of hard body shots and it showed. He was ready to drop.

I'm pretty sure it was going in to the 15th round. And I agree, Ali was begging Dundee to cut off his gloves, he was so relieved that Fraziers corner stopped the fight before he had a chance to quit himself that he damn near started crying. He also admitted on his stool after that fight that Frazier was the greatest of al time (next to him of course). [It was over 100 degrees and the fight was 10:45 in the morning]
I felt so bad for Frazier, he had come all that far and had taken so much punishment, for his corner to stop it just before the last round thats gotta be tough to take. It's like running a marathon and going neck and neck with your rival at the finish line, only to have someone trip you right before you break the ribbon.

[jazluvr]

Thanks Lorily...yeah, you're right, it was the last round, i wasn't quite sure, my memory isn't what it used to be. Lol...and it was morning...dam, you're making me feel old...hahaha. Even though i loved Ali, and wanted him to win, i did feel bad for Frazier too.

He was narrating parts of that replay-show, and at the end, he seemed so...dissapointed. He very well had a chance to win that so important 3rd match. It was a fight of a lifetime. I remember (vaguely) watching the trilogy, and what a battle it was. Reminded me of the Gatti-Ward, Vasques-Marquez fights.