Stop already comparing Manny to Armstrong

[ADP02]

Pacquiao has been compared by a lot of people to the great Henry Armstrong because of his similar successful rise through the weight divisions.

But Manny Pacquiao hasn't done it the same way as Armstrong did, because Henry was never afraid of being outweighed by several pounds by his rivals as he was going up in wieght. He was the much smaller fighter a lot of the times, and he still won.

I believe Pacquiao is a true warrior. So I really don't get why he is asking for catch-weights since he has moved up to the WW zone. Just look how he dominated all his recent opponents, does Pacquiao really need catch-weights ? **** no. He could be fighting his opponents at their full healthy natural fighting weight, and he would still beat them.

So why hurt his legacy with those catch-weights ?

De la Hoya cut 7 pounds, a whole division down.
Cotto cut 2 pounds.
And now they want Margarito at 150 for the vacant WBC 154 pound title.

Nonsense. And it's not even a close fight on paper. Pacquiao will toy with Margarito.

Therefore, I say respect the weight-divisions, respect the fighters, and respect the fans.

To me, Pacquiao is not only a multi-divisional champion, he's also a multi-catch-weight champion, and that is sad. Bringing down the weight of your opponents when you're the one who is supposed to be moving up, that's ****ed up to me. Weight division have become suggestions in Pacquiao's world.

Did RJJ asked Ruiz to come in at 215 when he fought him ? No. He was out-weighed by something like 30 pounds, and it didn't matter.

Homicide Hank 134 Ceferino Garcia 146½ for the World WW title
Homicide Hank 142 Ceferino Garcia 152 1/2 for the World MW title

Why tarnish the great run from 112 to 140 at the very end of a fighter's career ?

All this, for what? Manny having fought only 1 fight at a measly 2lbs catchweight. While I too would have preferred it being at 147, we all know that the outcome would have been the same at 147.

You make it sound like all of his fights are at catchweights but that is so so far from the truth.

[ADP02]

DLH didnt lose weight the wrong way, he simply couldnt make the weight/

so in essense, it was a catchweight fight.

DeLaHoya, said it himself, way before the weigh-in, that he is already OK with his weight. Oscar was so proud that he was ready to go a week before the fight and felt in great condition. Go back to the 24/7s .... Oscar said it there too.

At weigh in, Oscar weighed 145 and said it was due to his good conditioning program....

[fugu]

Lew Jenkins, contested at 140 for the welterweight crown for starters.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...1155009AAgUN14

It's on the front page of his Boxrec stats as well.

If you need more "proof" then that, the fact that both men weighed just a shade under 140 for the welterweight, I will dig for more proof. However, I think I've already proven conclusively that Hank fought title fights at catchweights.

It wasn't for the welterweight title.

Also, having to move down to defend a title would speak in favor of the champion rather than it being a ***** move for the challenger to demand a catchweight.

[Vadrigar.]

Lew Jenkins, contested at 140 for the welterweight crown for starters.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...1155009AAgUN14

It's on the front page of his Boxrec stats as well.

If you need more "proof" then that, the fact that both men weighed just a shade under 140 for the welterweight, I will dig for more proof. However, I think I've already proven conclusively that Hank fought title fights at catchweights.

It wasn't for the welterweight title:

After appearing to win the first 3 rounds, Jenkins goes down 7 times
Fight stopped before the start of the 7th round, but under New York rules is listed as a TKO in 6
Welterweight title not at stake per agreement.

[Xercen]

Back then those guys went more than 12 rounds...beasts

[Squizz]

Allot of people including most boxing insiders, and bookmakers had DLH winning that fight..Too big for Manny etc.. Manny wins and the excuses come flying, about the weight drain.

And I still don't know why. I should have bet the house on Manny in that fight. I thought it was obvious from the word go he was going to win.

[Mr. Mandingo]

Henry Armstrong is being severely overrated by his ****suckers because he's dead andhis last name is "Armstrong". His era in boxing was overrated as well. Id give hime around 6 rounds before Pacquiao literally gives him a noselift.

[Mr. Mandingo]

[Tiozzo]

Henry fought at numerous catchweights throughout his career. He defended his Welterweight title at contracted limits of 140 many times, to name just one of the many catchweight title fights Henry contested.

Oscar De La Hoya moved down to 147 to fight Floyd Mayweather Jr. In fact, he fought Steve Forbes at 150 to prepare for the Floyd rematch, and to prepare his body for the shift down in weight. Floyd "retired" for a year and a half, and Manny stepped in, moved up 13 pounds and battered the Golden Boy. Revisionists make it out that Manny drained Oscar, when it was Floyd who had Oscar moving down in weight.

DLH didn't fight Floyd for a second time in the end, so he didn't have to respect demands that were on the contract for Floyd II when he was now fighting Manny, right ?

and I just looked up the WW title fights Armstrong has had
you'll have to name the fights that happened at a catch-weight, because there's no indication there that there were catch-weights, and many of those fights happened at the full division limit with his opponents coming in near 147

http://boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?hum...boxer&pageID=1

provide evidence please
or else it didn't happen

Lew Jenkins, contested at 140 for the welterweight crown for starters.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...1155009AAgUN14

It's on the front page of his Boxrec stats as well.

If you need more "proof" then that, the fact that both men weighed just a shade under 140 for the welterweight, I will dig for more proof. However, I think I've already proven conclusively that Hank fought title fights at catchweights.

cough cough

^^^^^^^

Total domination by RimmyDelicious, 1st rd KO

People seem to be under the impression that Manny invented catchweights or something. It's like the ****ing twilight zone. These morons have no knowledge of the history of the sport, CATCHWEIGHTS WERE FAR MORE COMMON IN THE PAST THEN THEY ARE NOW.

"Henry Armstrong TKO end of 6 Lew Jenkins -- Polo Grounds, N.Y., July 17, 1940

Welterweight champion Henry Armstrong was obliged to weigh in seven pounds under the division limit for his scheduled 12-rounder with lightweight champion Lew Jenkins. This was no problem for Armstrong, a featherweight champion who was small for a welterweight. Armstrong came in at 139 pounds, while Jenkins was just a half-pound over the lightweight limit of 135.

The fight held intrigue because Jenkins, from Sweetwater, Texas, was known to be a terrific hitter. New York Times columnist John Kieran was one of many who felt that Jenkins's big punch gave him a chance. "If he can land that punch on a dodging target like Armstrong he may do well for himself," Kieran opined in a prefight story.

Jenkins did indeed do damage. Joseph P. Dawson reported in The New York Times that Armstrong's left eye was swollen almost shut while his right eye "dripped a blinding flow of blood" after a desperation left hook opened an old cut. Armstrong was winning the fight, though. He took command from the fourth round and Jenkins was down seven times, unable to hold the stronger, superior fighter in Armstrong. Referee Arthur Donovan stopped the fight at the end of the sixth as Jenkins "writhed and groaned on his stool" in the words of reporter Dawson."

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/box...ory?id=3238297

This argument is ridiculous as a point of comparing what Hank and Manny did unless you only wish to it further verify Armstrong as bad ass and antithetical to what Pac has done for Cotto and, purportedly, now Marg. Hank, as a champion and star, came DOWN the scale to face world class men from divisions below. He wasn't seeking advantage or trying to dry out his foes.

It wasn't for the welterweight title.

Also, having to move down to defend a title would speak in favor of the champion rather than it being a ***** move for the challenger to demand a catchweight.

It wasn't for the welterweight title:

sorry I was away for a while, it's not that I didn't want to continue discussing

as I can see, the discussion went on and took an interesting direction

I was about to give props to Rimmylicious for his comments, but now it seems that I am not the only one who has been ''owned'', and the so called fact that Rimmy provided is being disputed by 2 or 3 posters

doesn't look good for him

I would add that you said Armstrong defended his welterweight title NUMEROUS TIMES at a catch-weight, and the only example you did provide ends up being contested by 2 posters ?

well...

and as Cliff Rold wisely stated, Armstrong used to go down and up in weight and held 3 titles simulteanously

[KickAzz]

Pacquiao has been compared by a lot of people to the great Henry Armstrong because of his similar successful rise through the weight divisions.

But Manny Pacquiao hasn't done it the same way as Armstrong did, because Henry was never afraid of being outweighed by several pounds by his rivals as he was going up in wieght. He was the much smaller fighter a lot of the times, and he still won.

I believe Pacquiao is a true warrior. So I really don't get why he is asking for catch-weights since he has moved up to the WW zone. Just look how he dominated all his recent opponents, does Pacquiao really need catch-weights ? **** no. He could be fighting his opponents at their full healthy natural fighting weight, and he would still beat them.

So why hurt his legacy with those catch-weights ?

De la Hoya cut 7 pounds, a whole division down.
Cotto cut 2 pounds.
And now they want Margarito at 150 for the vacant WBC 154 pound title.

Nonsense. And it's not even a close fight on paper. Pacquiao will toy with Margarito.

Therefore, I say respect the weight-divisions, respect the fighters, and respect the fans.

To me, Pacquiao is not only a multi-divisional champion, he's also a multi-catch-weight champion, and that is sad. Bringing down the weight of your opponents when you're the one who is supposed to be moving up, that's ****ed up to me. Weight division have become suggestions in Pacquiao's world.

Did RJJ asked Ruiz to come in at 215 when he fought him ? No. He was out-weighed by something like 30 pounds, and it didn't matter.

Homicide Hank 134 Ceferino Garcia 146½ for the World WW title
Homicide Hank 142 Ceferino Garcia 152 1/2 for the World MW title

Why tarnish the great run from 112 to 140 at the very end of a fighter's career ?

pac is the henry armstrong of this generation.