Comments Thread For: Arum: By Monday, Pacquiao's Fight Should Be Decided

[Khalid X]

Yeah. I'm a grown man. I don't mind paying for fights. Besides, I hate not seeing a fight live, it just changes the experience.

You made a really good point about streams. I wonder if that contributed to the low PPV #'s for manny clottey?

naah. People will always stream and it didn't stop Floyd from doing the numbers he has (I'm saying this because I know you are a Floyd fan) or any other draw like DLH and others from doing the numbers they have done.

I think the black box era was the worst because who could get the fights on tv for a group of people to see vs. a ****ty stream that is not only on a small pc screen but also goes down, forcing people to keep asking for various links. With that said, Tyson did monstrous numbers in that era and leaching is something every draw (after the mid 90's) will have to deal with.

[The Big Dunn]

At the time Manny fought him I considered him one. He beat Judah, Baldomir and in the minds of most who watched, beat Cotto as well (I had Cotto edging out by a point FWIW). Not only that but he also had a close fight with Margarito as well. I think most forget that Clottey has actually put in some work and has been in with a lot of good guys.

My rankings at the time
1. Pacquiao
2. Mosley
3. Mayweather
4. Cotto
5. Clottey

He obviously had done more than Berto or any other guy at that weight, so of course he was top 5 at the time

my LW rankings at the time
1. Casamayor
2. Campbell
3. Juan Diaz
4. David Diaz
5. Michael Katsidis

How could manny objectively be the #1 ww when he fought clottey? Mosley was the lineal champ having beaten marg. Berto was the WBC champ. Manny, at that point, had only beaten Cotto but did so at 145 not 147. floyd is tough to rank because he left on top but returned at 144 (146) vs JMM. I think it has to be:

Mosley
Pac
Cotto
Berto
Margarito

I still say floyd is the best but its hard to just put him there when he returned but hadn't fought at the weight. Clottey is in the 2nd tier with collazo, isaac hwathito (spelled wrong) and those guys. IMO

[The Big Dunn]

naah. People will always stream and it didn't stop Floyd from doing the numbers he has (I'm saying this because I know you are a Floyd fan) or any other draw like DLH and others from doing the numbers they have done.

I think the black box era was the worst because who could get the fights on tv for a group of people to see vs. a ****ty stream that is not only on a small pc screen but also goes down, forcing people to keep asking for various links. With that said, Tyson did monstrous numbers in that era and leaching is something every draw (after the mid 90's) will have to deal with.

I put up a thread to gauage what people think. Floyd, ODH, Tyson, (i'll try to say this without sounding as bad as it will look when posted) attract mainstream (read white) casual fans. They are going to buy fights the right way, not the free cable hook up I enjoyed for so many years.

[ThePrince]

Small thing to a giant. Those who saying they won't be watching would not have been watching Manny fight regardless of the opponent. These are the same guys who beg for streams and don't support the sport anyway...so **** em, Manny doesn't need them to do numbers.

That's the thing, on this particular fight (if they take the Abu Dhabi offer, and they will) Pacquiao won't have to do PPV numbers. He will make a guaranteed c. $20 mil because of the crazy site fee. BUT the UAE royal family is taking all the risk on the PPV/gate portion so they want someone who is a name brand. Margarito (for both good and bad reasons) is more recognizable than Paul Williams, Andre Berto, Timothy Bradley put together. The guy was the top dog in the welters, set attendance records w/ Shane at Staples, is one of the few guys to do well on PPV w/o fighting Pac or May (500,000 buys for Cotto fight), and is a controversial figure. Meanwhile Bradley, Pwill are fighting in half-filled 2,000 seat arenas and have never sniffed a PPV.

If you were taking all the risk on the fight and dropping $30 mil up front and giving red carpet treatment... who would you want as an opponent for Pacquiao? Margarito, Bradley, Williams, or Berto?

Take of the hate goggles and look at it from a business standpoint.

[The Big Dunn]

That's the thing, on this particular fight (if they take the Abu Dhabi offer, and they will) Pacquiao won't have to do PPV numbers. He will make a guaranteed c. $20 mil because of the crazy site fee. BUT the UAE royal family is taking all the risk on the PPV/gate portion so they want someone who is a name brand. Margarito (for both good and bad reasons) is more recognizable than Paul Williams, Andre Berto, Timothy Bradley put together. The guy was the top dog in the welters, set attendance records w/ Shane at Staples, is one of the few guys to do well on PPV w/o fighting Pac or May (500,000 buys for Cotto fight), and is a controversial figure. Meanwhile Bradley, Pwill are fighting in half-filled 2,000 seat arenas and have never sniffed a PPV.

If you were taking all the risk on the fight and dropping $30 mil up front and giving red carpet treatment... who would you want as an opponent for Pacquiao? Margarito, Bradley, Williams, or Berto?

Take of the hate goggles and look at it from a business standpoint.

I agree. But when manny does this, his fans should use the same words they used when floyd did the same thing. Just be consistent!

[Khalid X]

How could manny objectively be the #1 ww when he fought clottey? Mosley was the lineal champ having beaten marg. Berto was the WBC champ. Manny, at that point, had only beaten Cotto but did so at 145 not 147. floyd is tough to rank because he left on top but returned at 144 (146) vs JMM. I think it has to be:

Mosley
Pac
Cotto
Berto
Margarito

I still say floyd is the best but its hard to just put him there when he returned but hadn't fought at the weight. Clottey is in the 2nd tier with collazo, isaac hwathito (spelled wrong) and those guys. IMO

Honestly I have been on record as saying there was really no number 1 ranked guy at the time. So if you had Mosley there, then I can see an argument in Shane's behalf. I just looked at a common opponent, Cotto, and the fact that Mosley lost to him, while Manny destroyed him.

It's hard to put Mosley on top due to him losing to Cotto. Cotto mosdef should be number 1 due to him losing to Tony and Pac, and Floyd had just came from an almost two year retirement. So 1-4 is really subjective to me.

I think it comes down to Berto vs Clottey. I give Clottey the nod soley due to him beating Judah, someone who is way better than anyone Berto has faced at that weight. Then you add to the fact that he should have wins over Cotto and Baldomir as well, then it becomes a no contest. Maybe you see it different I guess.

[ThePrince]

I agree. But when manny does this, his fans should use the same words they used when floyd did the same thing. Just be consistent!

Honestly, the guys that May has been accused of 'ducking' the past 3 years or so have all been big draws and viable PPV options. Margarito, Cotto, Mosley, and Pacquiao are all huge money fights, as was proven when he finally did get with Shane. Some people have thrown out Williams as a guy he's avoiding, but he's not a name brand like the others (and I can't figure out why, guy should be huge... bad promoting I guess) and basically every welter w/ a few exceptions like Margs and Quintana wanted nothing to do with him.

Bit on topic- Arum said during the summer, before the 'decision' that he would be open to matching up Cotto w/ Mayweather in Dec. if Floyd passed on Manny. It would set up a great scenario that would favor May if a fight w/ Pac happens next year. Mayweather-Cotto in Dec for the WBA 154 belt, Pacquiao-Margarito in Nov for the WBC belt... winners meet in May for the undisputed crown.

Works out for May because if you remember during the first negotiations, word was he wanted the fight at 154 w/ 10 oz gloves. That would work in his advantage in many ways.

And there was a report yesterday that Floyd is on 'vacation' in PR right now.

Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but a man can dream no?

[The Big Dunn]

Honestly I have been on record as saying there was really no number 1 ranked guy at the time. So if you had Mosley there, then I can see an argument in Shane's behalf. I just looked at a common opponent, Cotto, and the fact that Mosley lost to him, while Manny destroyed him.

It's hard to put Mosley on top due to him losing to Cotto. Cotto mosdef should be number 1 due to him losing to Tony and Pac, and Floyd had just came from an almost two year retirement. So 1-4 is really subjective to me.

I think it comes down to Berto vs Clottey. I give Clottey the nod soley due to him beating Judah, someone who is way better than anyone Berto has faced at that weight. Then you add to the fact that he should have wins over Cotto and Baldomir as well, then it becomes a no contest. Maybe you see it different I guess.

Cotto at 1 prior to the manny fight is ok. He beat Shane close, Marg killed him (prob loaded gloves) and Shane shat on Marg. Can't argue with the logic of Clottey beating Zab. Good post!

[The Big Dunn]

Honestly, the guys that May has been accused of 'ducking' the past 3 years or so have all been big draws and viable PPV options. Margarito, Cotto, Mosley, and Pacquiao are all huge money fights, as was proven when he finally did get with Shane. Some people have thrown out Williams as a guy he's avoiding, but he's not a name brand like the others (and I can't figure out why, guy should be huge... bad promoting I guess) and basically every welter w/ a few exceptions like Margs and Quintana wanted nothing to do with him.

Bit on topic- Arum said during the summer, before the 'decision' that he would be open to matching up Cotto w/ Mayweather in Dec. if Floyd passed on Manny. It would set up a great scenario that would favor May if a fight w/ Pac happens next year. Mayweather-Cotto in Dec for the WBA 154 belt, Pacquiao-Margarito in Nov for the WBC belt... winners meet in May for the undisputed crown.

Works out for May because if you remember during the first negotiations, word was he wanted the fight at 154 w/ 10 oz gloves. That would work in his advantage in many ways.

And there was a report yesterday that Floyd is on 'vacation' in PR right now.

Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but a man can dream no?

When floyd didn't fight marg and cotto he fought ODH and Baldomir instead, both for more money, even though they were better competition at the time. ODH was much bigger than Cotto ppv wise. Marg was not a ppv entity then. Remember he had lost to daniel santos 2 fights before.

Right now, tim/berto/williams have all called manny out (like marg and cotto). manny can fight the competiton or the bigger draws. I would fight the bigger draws too. But his fans better kill him for it the way they kill floyd.

Floyd cotto in Dec would be nice!

[big_james10]

Two serious question for all the Pac fans:

1) Do any of you actually believe there is a snowball's chance in hell that Pacquaio's next opponent will someone other than Antonio Margarito and that the fight will actually be fought somewhere other than Mexico?

2) Is it appropriate/fair for Pac and Margarito to fight for a 154-pound title at a catchweight when Margarito has only fought two fights at 154 (one being eight or nine years ago) and Pac has fought no fights at 154?

These are serious questions and I would like your response.