Who is the best counter puncher off all time???

[oldgringo]

Don't forget about RJJ.

With his speed and at the top of his game he could counter and it was rare the opponent would even begin to see it coming.

Archie Moore was a great counter puncher.

So was Ricardo Lopez...

Finito Lopez was an excellent counter puncher...I agree. That lil man was bad.

Marvin Hagler in his prime was one hell of a counter puncher and I think a lot of people missed that. It's sad how many people only know the tired Hagler for his fights against Hearns, Mugabi, and Leonard...even though they were great action fights.

Azumah Nelson was also a great counter puncher during his days at 126 and 130. That man could really do it all.

[Parodius]

Whitakers my favorite fighter ever by a mile. Toney is my second favorite fighter ever. I've been into this sport for 16 years of my life and I've seen plenty of all of those guys I named outside of Leonard really, so don't speak on things you don't know.

I've seen Whitaker in fights with Mayweather, Ramirez I, Lomeli, Nazario, Nelson, Paez from 135....from 147 I've seen Chavez, McGirt x2, Cardona, parts of Rivera I&II, De La Hoya, Trinidad, Hurtado...and I saw him against JC Vazquez for his title in his 4th weight class. I've seen a lot more of him than you have, and the man was a great counterpuncher, who used his footwork and upperbody defense to exploit his opponents balance and angles. Maybe not the greatest ever, but he definitely comes to mind as being pretty damned good.

What did you read my post and automatically think you needed to try and prove yourself with the whole, "oh yeah well I could have named those other guys too blah blah" thing?

You've seen Sugar Ray Robinson & Benny Leonard, how old are you, are you like 70 or 80. Come on now I've seen the old tapes too. But that's not really seeing them. How in the world you put Alexis Arguello in that list. But please don't reply, I know the answer. Also I've been a boxing fan for 27 years & I'm 34 years old. Since I was kid, this was my favorite sports, I've so many fights on tapes, that you will be surprised.

[Bozo_no no]

Come on now I've seen the old tapes too. But that's not really seeing them.

What the hell are you talking about?

By that definition, many of the people here have never even "really seen" current fighters unless they've had the luxury of attending a ton of live fights.

If you've seen a well recorded fight, you've seen it. End of story.

[Parodius]

What the hell are you talking about?

By that definition, many of the people here have never even "really seen" current fighters unless they've had the luxury of attending a ton of live fights.

If you've seen a well recorded fight, you've seen it. End of story.

What I'm trying to say the old tapes from guys like Robinson or lewis is in black in white, the quality of the films & the technology of the camera are pretty bad. So you really can judge too much from the old B&W tapes.

[oldgringo]

You've seen Sugar Ray Robinson & Benny Leonard
, how old are you, are you like 70 or 80. Come on now I've seen the old tape too. But that's not really seeing them. How in the world you put Alexis Arguello in that list. But please don't reply, I know the answer.

Seeing the old tapes/film is seeing them. My grandfather is somewhat of a historian and has insane amounts of old fight tapes and film, and I've seen/heard enough footage of the middleweight version of Robinson (LaMotta, Basilio, Fullmer, Graziano) to know that he was an excellent counter puncher. How else is the man dubbed the greatest fighter ever?

There wasn't much footage of him during his reign at welterweight, so that's really a mystery to a lot of people. My grandfather has told me a lot about him though (hes seen him fight live a couple of times), and he was supposed to be much much better at 147 than he was at 160, and that's a scary thought.

Alexis Arguello was disgusting at lower weights, and was a surgeon with his punches. His power and accuracy combination was intense. He used great counter shots to pick apart Mancini, CBE, and Bazooka Limons face...and I was told that he did the same against Alfredo Escalera. Just look at his counter work against Pryor when he was well past his best and was WAY above his best weight class. Pryor was throwing non-stop and Arguello hung in and almost decapitated Pryor on more than one occasion.

Also, notice how I said "OUTSIDE of Leonard really", meaning that I haven't seen footage of him. You put it in your post like I said that....which is false information. I've only heard and read that he was a great counter puncher.

[Bozo_no no]

What I'm trying to say the old tapes from guys like Robinson or lewis is in black in white, the quality of the films & the technology of the camera are pretty bad. So you really can judge too much from the old B&W tapes.

I don't know about you but I have a huge selection of black and white fights and I'm able to pick out the shots and counter shots quite easilly.

[Tony Blitz]

I think YALL MUST'VE FORGOT Roy Jones Jr

[Parodius]

Seeing the old tapes/film is seeing them. My grandfather is somewhat of a historian and has insane amounts of old fight tapes and film, and I've seen/heard enough footage of the middleweight version of Robinson (LaMotta, Basilio, Fullmer, Graziano) to know that he was an excellent counter puncher. How else is the man dubbed the greatest fighter ever?

There wasn't much footage of him during his reign at welterweight, so that's really a mystery to a lot of people. My grandfather has told me a lot about him though (hes seen him fight live a couple of times), and he was supposed to be much much better at 147 than he was at 160, and that's a scary thought.

Alexis Arguello was disgusting at lower weights, and was a surgeon with his punches. His power and accuracy combination was intense. He used great counter shots to pick apart Mancini, CBE, and Bazooka Limons face...and I was told that he did the same against Alfredo Escalera. Just look at his counter work against Pryor when he was well past his best and was WAY above his best weight class. Pryor was throwing non-stop and Arguello hung in and almost decapitated Pryor on more than one occasion.

I'm not gonna argue with Robinson being the greatest of all time. I've always called Robinson the greatest, because he revolutionized boxing, The great Ali tried to be like him. But I've seen many Robinson fights, but the technology is so bad, it's hard to tell how good his counter punching skills were. It wouldn't surprise me if he was the greatest counter puncher of all time, but if you watch the old tapes, it doesn't really give you a clear answer. I've seen the classic Alexis Arguello fights against Pryor & noway I will call Arguello as one the best counter punchers of all time. I didn't mentioned my favorite fighter of all time which is Hagler, I thought Hagler in his prime was a better counter puncher then Arguello, so I didn't mentioned my favorite fighter of all time & my Idol when I was growing up. Arguello should not be in that list, again this my opinion, I guess me & you will not agree on it.

[Parodius]

I don't know about you but I have a huge selection of black and white fights and I'm able to pick out the shots and counter shots quite easilly.

Maybe you have super vision. Most of the camera angles are pretty bad & the speed of the films are not right.

[Bozo_no no]

Maybe you have super vision. Most of the camera angles are pretty bad & the speed of the films are not right.

I would guess you just have a ****ty VCR and TV.

I've burnt alot of my stuff to disc and have a 64" TV.

I guess it comes down to how many fights you've seen of a certian fighter, and if you feel comfortable in saying that you saw a good account of that fighter; because I strongly disagree with your take about footage of Ray Robinson at middle. Alot of the rebrodcasted stuff I've captured is very good quality for that time, and easy to pick out combonations and quick punches.