What would happen in Wladimir Klitschko would face Ali's opponents NOWADAYS?

[Davros?]

Sultan would beat Liston and Frazier IMO, simply looking at their records, the weight they fough at, everything else.

lol your funny.

[knn]

No boxing moves on but if you knew a little about boxing you would know that Wlad's style is rooted in the pre war if anything.

Even if. So what? This is typical losers' whining "Yes, he KOs everyone put in front of him.. but his style! He doesn't do it with style! *whine*".

Also means we can skim over Vitali's steroid abuse

Offtopic, since this is a thread about Wladimir Klitschko.

Ever heard the phrase lies, damn lies and statistics?

Yes, doesn't apply here. If you find some weakness in Wlad's statistic (or some strength in Ali's) then please mention it.

Sorry I have to use a man beginning to suffer from the effects of Parkinsons, ok Ali was tip top prime against Holmes hence he lasted until the 10th round which is longer than either of the brothers would last IMO

I never claimed that Ali was prime, but Ali wanted that fight and bragged about it. So his trashtalking mouth was prime definitely.

ok lets go to the facts Liston has a 3 inch reach advantage on Wlad

He doesn't. This is merely the arm length (= from hand to hand) INCLUNG THE FINGER LENGTH mistakingly called "reach". You have to add the shoulder flexibility and the body height to properly assess the reach perimeter.

is as quick and has a better jab. Wlad doesn't seem to like getting hurt as his recent cautious style shows how do you see this one going?

Liston was mainly a bum-beater. Mainly a beater of featherfisted cruiser-bums (median win opponent: 198 lbs, median KOratio of his opponents: 29%). It's irrelevant how Liston performed against featherfisted cruisers and how he liked to exchange punches with them. Don't compare Wlad with Patterson (190+) or with Williams (whose median win opponent is 15-13).

[Left Hook Tua]

I dunno but how would Ali go against Corrie Sadners and Lamon Brewster?

my guess would be...... ali doesn't get ktfo.

[Mr. Mandingo]

If Wlad fought that Jamaican super Bum Berbick who schooled Ali, This Bum would have a permanent physical disability

[knn]

What Adamek is doing is pathetic

I disagree but this is getting too offtopic anyway.

Its not about that, its about starting early and making Boxing your top priority. At age 10 the big kids are pointed to the direction of a field or hardwood court instead of a ring.

Do you have any proof that this makes a great era? Sending 10year-olds to the gym? Maybe this is what makes an era bad (= wasting young bodies too fast).

I said all of his LOSSES came from the trash of the previous era. You failed to mention the 37 year old golfer, and the other bum who smoked him. Maybe americans should recruit failed golfers instead of failed footballers?

Or maybe Americans should hire racist draft dodgers and rapists.

Its a fact that humans lose athleticism the older they get, how can you call that pure speculation?

Because Lennox may have lost athleticism but maybe gained stamina and chin.

the oldest version of Lennox ( 37 years 292 days)

Yeah, it was Lennox' last fight so of course it's "the oldest version".

the fattest version of Lennox 257 lbs, 10 over his prime weight.

You have no proof how much of that weight gain was fat and how much was muscles. And you have no proof that "being fat" is bad against Vitali Klitschko. And Lennox was weighing 230+ when he lost to McCall.

the most inactive version of Lennox (1 year layoff of total inactivity.)

A long time to heal wounds. He may have felt more healthy and refreshed than ever.

By the same token, Vitali was a lot younger, faster, and stronger in 2003 than he is right now.

What ever he was, he was definitely LESS experienced and LESS prepared (12 days notice) than now.

You see, I take the exact same data as you AND YET CAN COME TO THE OPPOSITE CONCLUSION. That always happens when someone argues with "bad era" or "prime".

Tyson wins? "Yeah, the era was bad"
Tyson loses? "Yeah, that was Tyson BEFORE his prime" or "AFTER his prime"

or

Tyson wins? "Yeah, that was prime Tyson!"
Tyson loses? "Damn it, what a good era with tough opponents"

Eras and Primes are worthless arguments.

A declining Lennox overcame a peaking Klitschko

Peaking Klitschko? You have absolutely no proof for that.

[Joeyzagz]

Because Lennox may have lost athleticism but maybe gained stamina and chin.

Please show how getting older increases your stamina and chin.

You agree that Lennox may have lost Ahleticism.

Yeah, it was Lennox' last fight so of course it's "the oldest version".

You agree that Lennox was old.

And you have no proof that "being fat" is bad against Vitali Klitschko.

Actually I do. The two fattest opponents on Vitali's resume were bouncing off the canvas like basketballs, and the two lightest opponents remained on their feet. In Vitali's case: fatter = bigger slower target.

Lennox was 253 when he lost to Rahman, and slimmed down to 246 to pwn him in the rematch. In Lennox's case 246 = quicker dangerous Lennox.

....You agree Lennox was Blown up("fat").

You see, I take the exact same data as you AND YET CAN COME TO THE OPPOSITE CONCLUSION. That always happens when someone argues with "bad era" or "prime".

I dont care what conclusion you come up with to be honest. You agreed that

1. Lennox was the Old
2. Lennox was blown up "fat"
3. Lennox may have lost athleticism


And in your sig YOU imply that these things are bad...

1. Being old is bad(Liston)
2. Being fat or blown up is bad(Moore welterweight)
3. Losing athletic ability is bad(shot Williams)
.........
So, yeah, come up with whatever conclusion you want...Water is dry, fire is cold, Mars is Blue , as long as you agree with these basics, I'm fine.

I conclude that A faded champ of the previous era, overcame the prime-dominant champ of the next era.

[knn]

Please show how getting older increases your stamina and chin.

Just watch Sam Peter or Chris Arreola to see that stamina doesn't suffer. If you are fat AND untrained then it suffers. If you are fat AND trained (and are a somewhat decent fighter) then the fat protects you from getting tired from the hits.

You agree that Lennox may have lost Ahleticism.

Yeah so? This is heavyweight and not "athleticismweight".

You agree that Lennox was old.

No, I merely reminded you that your statement "the oldest ever Lennox" is obvious because it was his last fight.

Actually I do. The two fattest opponents on Vitali's resume were bouncing off the canvas like basketballs, and the two lightest opponents remained on their feet. In Vitali's case: fatter = bigger slower target.

And in Wladimir's case he Humpty-Dumty'ed Byrd and got into trouble with Sam Peter. Listen, this is a thread about Ali's opponents and Wladimir Klitschko. Please no more Adameks or Dannies.

Lennox was 253 when he lost to Rahman, and slimmed down to 246 to pwn him in the rematch. In Lennox's case 246 = quicker dangerous Lennox.

But Lennox was YOUNGER then. As he got older (and thus slower) the additional fat has been maybe exactly what protected him best from Vitali. Thus the younger slimmer Lennox may have been as "prime" as the older fatter one because we have to see the "whole prime'ness" not only the "muscle prime'ness" or "speed prime'ness".

You agree Lennox was Blown up("fat").

I don't. He looked fatter than in other fights but still in very good shape. Ali was fat, Lennox not.

I dont care what conclusion you come up with to be honest.

This is exactly your problem: That you don't see how the same facts can lead to completely different CONCLUSIONS. Noone denies that Lennox was the heaviest ever. I just deny that the conclusion is automatically that it was the worst version of Lennox.

And in your sig YOU imply that these things are bad...

1. Being old is bad(Liston)

Don't compare a 9 year difference (actually 14 years since Liston lied about his age) with a 5 years difference. And don't compare Liston to Lennox.

2. Being fat or blown up is bad(Moore welterweight)

I never ever claimed that.

3. Losing athletic ability is bad(shot Williams)

Williams couldn't properly move his leg after that gunshot. Has nothing to do with athleticism.

So, yeah, come up with whatever conclusion you want...Water is dry, fire is cold, Mars is Blue , as long as you agree with these basics, I'm fine.

Water is wet. But you claim that "wet is bad" while I claim "It's not necessarily wet". This is the difference between us. Even if Lewis would have been CLEARLY overweight (which he wasn't) then it still isn't necessarily bad.

I conclude that A faded champ of the previous era, overcame the prime-dominant champ of the next era.

Again pure speculation.

To make a long text short: No, I don't agree that he was too old, nor too fat, nor too unathletic.

[Joeyzagz]

OK, prove to me that Wlad's legs are weak because he is 6'6''. It's a nonsense statement like "Ali's chin is strong because he is 6'4''.

Its basic physics. All things being equal, the tall slender object is more likely to tip over than the short stout object. Higher center of gravity, weaker foundation.

But from a boxing standpoint dont sit here and pretend that Wlad has legs of steel. He has been down twice as many times as Ali, which is why Wlad's been fighting feather-fisters and geezers ever since 2005.

[knn]

Its basic physics. All things being equal, the tall slender object is more likely to tip over than the short stout object. Higher center of gravity, weaker foundation.

With that same logic babies would never fall down "because they are so small".

But from a boxing standpoint dont sit here and pretend that Wlad has legs of steel. He has been down twice as many times as Ali

OF COURSE HE HAS BEEN DOWN MORE OFTEN: Because he faced the much heavier opposition. Expect already the next generation of heavyweight boxers to get floored even more often, since the punches get stronger and stronger.

which is why Wlad's been fighting feather-fisters and geezers ever since 2005.

Don't invent stuff. What are you smoking?
Wlad's opponents since 2006 (= his last 9 opponents) have an average KOratio of 61%. Not only that Ali's last 9 opponents have only an 47% KOratio, but Ali also LOST to 3 of them. Stop inventing fake statistics ("KOratio since 2006") and then additionally invent results.

And I am even merciful because I included the KOs against cruisers and sub-cruisers. Otherwise Ali's opponents would look even worse.

Moreover I already answered that nonsense at

http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8687771&postcount=182

[Davros?]

Liston was mainly a bum-beater. Mainly a beater of featherfisted cruiser-bums (median win opponent: 198 lbs, median KOratio of his opponents: 29%). It's irrelevant how Liston performed against featherfisted cruisers and how he liked to exchange punches with them. Don't compare Wlad with Patterson (190+) or with Williams (whose median win opponent is 15-13).

Liston was massively built, He may not have been as tall as Wlad or Vitali but he had a longer reach and his fists where almost as big as Valuev's he also had good hand speed for his size good combos head movement and very good power.

Patterson may have been small and wouldn’t have beaten the klits but he has a better record than anyone Wlad or Vitali has beaten, he had wins over Archie Moore, Ingemar Johansson, Eddie Machen, George Chuvalo, Henry Cooper, Bonavena and should have been given the win against Ellis and Quarry imo, plus he had great hand speed and power for his size.