What would happen in Wladimir Klitschko would face Ali's opponents NOWADAYS?

[WladIsTheChamp]

With that same logic babies would never fall down "because they are so small".


OF COURSE HE HAS BEEN DOWN MORE OFTEN: Because he faced the much heavier opposition. Expect already the next generation of heavyweight boxers to get floored even more often, since the punches gets stronger and stronger.


Don't invent stuff. What are you smoking?
Wlad's opponents since 2006 (= his last 9 opponents) have an average KOratio of 61%. Not only that Ali's last 9 opponents have only an 47% KOratio, but Ali also LOST to 3 of them. Stop inventing fake statistics ("KOratio since 2006") and then additionally invent results.

And I am even merciful because I included the KOs against cruisers and sub-cruisers. Otherwise Ali's opponents would look even worse.

Moreover I already answered that nonsense at
http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/sh...&postcount=182

Amazing, isn't it? Love it how Wlad's opponents on average have above average power and better win/loss ratios, than say Cassius Clay, yet you have Claytons coming out and stating the exact opposite. Don't they know anyone could easily check their stats?

[Davros?]

Amazing, isn't it? Love it how Wlad's opponents on average have above average power and better win/loss ratios, than say Cassius Clay, yet you have Claytons coming out and stating the exact opposite. Don't they know anyone could easily check their stats?

Win/loss ratios mean nothing it depends on the level of compation your facing, If you face a good level of fighters from early on rather than pushing over tomato can opponents you will have a lower ko ratio. Wlad lost to a fighter with a record of 24-13-1 if you just read the stats from boxrec you would have though Wlad wasnt that good when he clearly is good, you can come up with stats to prove anything 40% of people know that.

[knn]

Liston was massively built, He may not have been as tall as Wlad or Vitali

Nice understatement. He was a dwarf.

but he had a longer reach and his fists where almost as big as Valuev's he also had good hand speed for his size good combos head movement and very good power.

He may have been all of that and nevertheless he was mainly a beater of featherfisted bums. Add to it that half (26) of his opponents came from a loss (or draw) and then you start to begin to get the full picture.

Patterson may have been small and wouldn’t have beaten the klits but he has a better record than anyone Wlad or Vitali has faced

Yeah, Patterson (188lbs) had better record than anyone Wlad faced at cruiserweight. Listen, I don't doubt that Patterson has a good p4p record. But if you think that Patterson (who boxed at 163lbs) has a chance against Klitschko then you are mistaken. Floyd has scored 7 KOs against 200+ opponents, all of which were either bums or former cruisers.

he had wins over Archie Moore, Ingemar Johansson, Eddie Machen, George Chuvalo, Henry Cooper, Bonavena and should have been given the win against Ellis and Quarry imo, plus he had great hand speed and power for his size.

Yes, he had/was all of that. But a win over 18-year-older Archie Moore (started at 140+) is meaningless when you want to assess his chances against Klitschko.

[Boss2k10]

Wlad has wins over crusierweight Castillo, win over Peter where he was knocked down twice, light heavyweight Byrd, bum beater Calvin Borck, 36 year old Austin, beat a Brewster who was coming of a loss in his previous fight, thomson a bum beater, a shot Hashim Rahman, blown up crusierweight eddie chambers.

Why do Klit fans big up Wlad he aint all that surely he still needs to improve his resume before we can say hes better than Ali. Chagaev and Ibragimov are good wins but he still needs to prove himslef. Just like Mayweather needs to improve his resume before you can say hes greater than SRR or SRL.

Vitali is a top champion though and I give him credit for his wins. Vitali is the true heavyweight champ and never lost his belt, Wlad is just a paper champion. Vitali would KO Wlad easy if they were to meet.

[knn]

Win/loss ratios mean nothing it depends on the level of compation your facing, If you face a good level of fighters from early on rather than pushing over tomato can opponents you will have a lower ko ratio.

That's why you have to exclude bums to correctly asses the quality.

Liston without bums: 11-3
Patterson: 14-7
Eric Esch: 4-2

Tyson: 21-6
Foreman: 20-4
Lennox: 21-2
Ali: 32-4 (the same 27 opponents)
Wlad: 28-2
Rid**** Bowe: 15-1

** Mind you, this is p4p AND NOT heavyweight (200+). Those who boxed in lower divisions (Ali, Archie Moore) have of course more fights because of the far lesser danger.))

You see a clear difference between bum-beaters and top level fighters. Actually you could make a pretty accurate Toplist merely based on this statistic. However there is a formula which gives you even a better result which is QualityOfOpposition*KOratio*WinLossRatio (where the QualityOfOpposition is also calculated by their own QualityOfOpposition*KOratio*WinLossRatio). If you calculate a list like that then you get a list which extremely accurately matches the Who's Who of boxing.

Oh, by the way: I know already the results of the calculations and.... guess what: Wlad is ATG whether CLAYtons like it or not.

And Boxrec's calculations suck because they make 3 mistakes.

Now I know that nobody (except me) will be able to compile such a list, thus you can go by a _simplified formula_ which is "How many KOwins did a boxer score in world heavyweight fights" (because by being a world title fight we can already assume that the opposition is somewhat good).

Wlad lost to a fighter with a record of 24-13-1 if you just read the stats from boxrec you would have though Wlad wasnt that good when he clearly is good

Doesn't matter to whom he lost. Anyone can lose to anyone in boxing, especially heavyweight boxing. It's HOW OFTEN he lost and HOW OFTEN he won against good opposition.

[knn]

Wlad has wins over crusierweight Castillo

Don't make stuff up. Castillo was not a cruiserweight at the time of the fight.

win over Peter where he was knocked down twice, light heavyweight Byrd, bum beater Calvin Brock, 36 year old Austin, beat a Brewster who was coming of a loss in his previous fight, thomson a bum beater, a shot Hashim Rahman, blown up crusierweight eddie chambers.

If you start to exclude FORMER cruiserweights (or lower) from the record then Ali has a record of 13-1 and Wlad a record of 35-3.

And why do you mention Austin's age? That was just a 5year difference. If you want to exclude Ali's fights where he was 5 years or younger than his opponents then you would immediately delete 22 fights of Ali's record, including Patterson, Folley, Liston etc...

And why do you want to exclude a fight merely because a fighter has been KDed? A KD merely deducts a point from the scorecards, not more.

[Joeyzagz]

OF COURSE HE HAS BEEN DOWN MORE OFTEN: Because he faced the much heavier opposition. Expect already the next generation of heavyweight boxers to get floored even more often, since the punches gets stronger and stronger.

Mike Tyson faced heavier opposition a lot more often than Wlad. Why wasnt Tyson KD'd 10 frocking times in his career? Stop pretending like Wlad's life on the canvas is normal.

The vast majority of the KDs against Ali and Wlad occurred against lighter opponents. All this nonsense about bigger is better @ Heavy, and it doesnt even apply to your two favorite test subjects.

[Boss2k10]

IN Wlads Prime Run

Chris Byrd- A guy who later moves down to LHW and Crusierweight due to being too small for heavyweight.
Calvin Brock- Bum beater
Ray Austin- A Shot fighter
Brewster- coming of a loss in his last bout
Thomson- bum beater
Hashim Rahman- a shot fighter
Eddie Chambers- blown up crusierweight

Best Wins are against Ibragimov and Chagaev. That is not an ATG resume.

[boxingchef]

Wlad has wins over crusierweight Castillo, win over Peter where he was knocked down twice, light heavyweight Byrd, bum beater Calvin Borck, 36 year old Austin, beat a Brewster who was coming of a loss in his previous fight, thomson a bum beater, a shot Hashim Rahman, blown up crusierweight eddie chambers.

Why do Klit fans big up Wlad he aint all that surely he still needs to improve his resume before we can say hes better than Ali. Chagaev and Ibragimov are good wins but he still needs to prove himslef. Just like Mayweather needs to improve his resume before you can say hes greater than SRR or SRL.

Vitali is a top champion though and I give him credit for his wins. Vitali is the true heavyweight champ and never lost his belt, Wlad is just a paper champion. Vitali would KO Wlad easy if they were to meet.

I totally disagree

[Joeyzagz]

Amazing, isn't it? Love it how Wlad's opponents on average have above average power and better win/loss ratios, than say Cassius Clay

Win/loss records are good for comparing two fighters in the same era but when crossing eras its not very useful at all. Its like comparing a B student at Community College to a C student at Harvard. You need to consider more variables than simple report cards, maybe even a third student who attended both schools and studied with both prospects?

-Chagaev is 25-0 when Wlad faces him.
-Chagaevs claim to fame was a close MD over Valuev
-Valuevs claim to fame is a close disputed MD over Holyfield

The fact that a 217 lb dinosaur from 1990 was able to do the same to Valuev as Wlads awesome 25-0 opponent did, doesnt say much for the quality of this era.

Holyfield should be getting brutally kO'd fighting outside of his era like Archie Moore did, like Jeff Jeffries did, hell.... like Ali did. This entire era is a disgrace top to bottom.