whast with the Ali downgrading threads?

[TyrantT316]

Well to be fair we can take a little away from him. He lost to both Norton and Frazier. Liston quit in the first fight from an injured shoulder and layed down in the second fight. All of which add to my assertion that the Foreman win was by the far the most important of his career. Ali was promoted by Don King in the 70's and he ducked a Foreman rematch like the plaugue.

Ali said after the 3rd Frazier fight he wanted to rematch Foreman and then retire. I wish he would have done that. He would have lost in the rematch and the torch would have been properly passed to Foreman, but it was never to be probably because of Don King or some other issue. Also if he would have followed that plan, fought Foreman and retired he might not have gotten such bad brain damage if he quit in late 75 or 76 instead of 81. We also would have never had to see Ali loose to that ****** Leon Spinks in 78.

why take away from a fighter is his opponent is the one who quit? especially if his opponent is supposed to be the big bad monster who could walk through anything...

why take away from Ali when his opponent lays down? Ali went in the ring, did what he had to do...was embarassing Liston again...

Ali lost to Norton, but also beat Norton twice...Ali lost to Frazier, but also beat Frazier twice...regardless of what people thought about the Norton fights...Ali is the recorded winner twice...

how can people take away from Ali that he beat Foreman because Foreman burnt himself out...Foreman didn't just burn himself out, Ali helped him...Ali did something great that night...

Foreman was the most important fight of his career...

every great fighter has several big fights, a few great wins, and one or two defining wins...

[The Troll]

why take away from a fighter is his opponent is the one who quit? especially if his opponent is supposed to be the big bad monster who could walk through anything...

why take away from Ali when his opponent lays down? Ali went in the ring, did what he had to do...was embarassing Liston again...

Ali lost to Norton, but also beat Norton twice...Ali lost to Frazier, but also beat Frazier twice...regardless of what people thought about the Norton fights...Ali is the recorded winner twice...

how can people take away from Ali that he beat Foreman because Foreman burnt himself out...Foreman didn't just burn himself out, Ali helped him...Ali did something great that night...

Foreman was the most important fight of his career...

every great fighter has several big fights, a few great wins, and one or two defining wins...

I wish the 3rd Frazier fight went to the cards. Joe's eyes did not look in that bad of condition and that damn doctor should have let him fight the 15th round. Frazier probably would have still lost on the cards but he deserved at least to not have L TKO on his record rather a L UD or MD. He might even knocked Ali down or something in the 15th Ali was understandably spent as hell after the 14th round, I would say more spent than Frazier, Frazier had the better Stamina and by at least Norton's account in better condition for that fight, plus Ali ate so many hard left hooks to the head vicious body punches in that fight.

[hollister]

why take away from a fighter is his opponent is the one who quit? especially if his opponent is supposed to be the big bad monster who could walk through anything...

why take away from Ali when his opponent lays down? Ali went in the ring, did what he had to do...was embarassing Liston again...

Ali lost to Norton, but also beat Norton twice...Ali lost to Frazier, but also beat Frazier twice...regardless of what people thought about the Norton fights...Ali is the recorded winner twice...

how can people take away from Ali that he beat Foreman because Foreman burnt himself out...Foreman didn't just burn himself out, Ali helped him...Ali did something great that night...

Foreman was the most important fight of his career...

every great fighter has several big fights, a few great wins, and one or two defining wins...

I see what you're saying, but wasn't Liston like 40 in the first fight?

[TyrantT316]

I wish the 3rd Frazier fight went to the cards. Joe's eyes did not look in that bad of condition and that damn doctor should have let him fight the 15th round. Frazier probably would have still lost on the cards but he deserved at least to not have L TKO on his record rather a L UD or MD. He might even knocked Ali down or something in the 15th Ali was understandably spent as hell after the 14th round, I would say more spent than Frazier, Frazier had the better Stamina and by at least Norton's account in better condition for that fight, plus Ali ate so many hard left hooks to the head vicious body punches in that fight.

but again, Ali went in there with an A class HOFer and did what he had to do...Ali looked like he was the one who should have quit...but guess what...he didn't! Frazier is the one who didn't come out for the final round of possibly his biggest fight...that is on him...if anything you should be getting on Joe for not coming out...Ali didn't do anything wrong...he fought...they both fought...just Joe didn't come out...Joe coulda shoulda woulda whatever...the fact of the matter is that he did not...

[TyrantT316]

I see what you're saying, but wasn't Liston like 40 in the first fight?

wasn't Liston like the champ and considered to be the monster who Ali had no chance against? Liston lost because he could not catch Ali or match his talent...plain and simple...

[The Troll]

but again, Ali went in there with an A class HOFer and did what he had to do...Ali looked like he was the one who should have quit...but guess what...he didn't! Frazier is the one who didn't come out for the final round of possibly his biggest fight...that is on him...if anything you should be getting on Joe for not coming out...Ali didn't do anything wrong...he fought...they both fought...just Joe didn't come out...Joe coulda shoulda woulda whatever...the fact of the matter is that he did not...

Joe did not quit in the 3rd Ali fight. The doctor bull**** stopped it. That was my whole point. That doctor was bull****. He stopped it supposedly because of the condition of Frazier's eyes and they were not that swollen they were nowhere near swollen to point where he could not see. They were mostly below the eye. Frazier being former Undisputed Champion and holding a win over Ali and having given hell to Ali the entire fight deserved a damn 15th round. The word quit was not even in Joe Frazier's vocabulary. Even after he was dropped 8 times by Foreman he kept getting up and bouncing and coming forward.

[TyrantT316]

Joe did not quit in the 3rd Ali fight. The doctor bull**** stopped it. That was my whole point. That doctor was bull****. He stopped it supposedly because of the condition of Frazier's eyes and they were not that swollen they were nowhere near swollen to point where he could not see. They were mostly below the eye. Frazier being former Undisputed Champion and holding a win over Ali and having given hell to Ali the entire fight deserved a damn 15th round. The word quit was not even in Joe Frazier's vocabulary. Even after he was dropped 8 times by Foreman he kept getting up and bouncing and coming forward.

ok, my fault for my lack of research into what happened in the corner of that fight...

either way, Ali came to fight...they both did...Ali got the better of Joe in most of the rounds and looked on his way to a victory...it was a close fight...but what do you expect between two natural rivals of HOFer quality? that victory should NOT be belittled for Ali...

[Mick Hucknall]

How was the Doctors decision bull****. Would you rather the fight was stopped or Frazier die in the last round. He was only doing his job and protecting Frazier.

[The Troll]

How was the Doctors decision bull****. Would you rather the fight was stopped or Frazier die in the last round. He was only doing his job and protecting Frazier.

Frazier looked less spent then Ali did even though Frazier took alot of punishment in round 14. The doctors reasoning for the stoppage was Frazier's eyes and they were not that bad at all. Like I said they were not nearly swollen shut he only had mouses under both eyes.

[IwatchBoxing]

Ali looked hated like hell after watching his fights, almost as bad as Trinidad, maybe worse.
I never knew he had to mouth off to his critics, and explain his actions like that, I understand the old guys who said they hated his guts at the time cause he ran like a *****, but Ali did seem like a complete fighter to me.