Who fought Better opponents between.....

[oldgringo]

Jirov a top P4P guy? Errr NO.

When Vassiliy Jirov was 31-0 or whatever he was and was straight dominating everyone he faced he was definitely a legitimate top 10-12 p4p guy. Jirov was avoided like no other too.

[Super_Lightweight]

hmm

In my opinion, beating an ancient Holyfgield is not a good win.

Tarver lost a disputable decision to Jirov in the Olynmpics, and Roy beat Tarver when struggling badly with weight, so his win over Tarver is as good as Toney's over Jirov, if not better.

Jones also beat Ruiz more convincingly. In fact, Toney doesn't hold a win over Ruiz, it is a NC due to steroids (fopr whatever reason).

Jones SMOKED Griffin whereas Toney lost to him twice.

Nunn was a good fighter, probably as good as anyone Roy has faced.

Level of competition is very comparable. Toney has no edge.

[oldgringo]

In my opinion, beating an ancient Holyfgield is not a good win.

Tarver lost a disputable decision to Jirov in the Olynmpics, and Roy beat Tarver when struggling badly with weight, so his win over Tarver is as good as Toney's over Jirov, if not better.

Jones also beat Ruiz more convincingly. In fact, Toney doesn't hold a win over Ruiz, it is a NC due to steroids (fopr whatever reason).

Jones SMOKED Griffin whereas Toney lost to him twice.

Nunn was a good fighter, probably as good as anyone Roy has faced.

Level of competition is very comparable. Toney has no edge.

I disagree with just about everything you said here but then again I'm a Toney fan and you're a Jones fan.

The Jirov that Toney faced was a monster in that Cruiser division and was avoided like the plague by everyone. He would have smoked Tarver and would have given a 190 pound Roy Jones hell and might have beat him given Roys chin. Ams mean nothing...

Nunn was a harder fight than anyone Roy has on his record. He was 36-0 and on top of his game. Toney was weight drained and Hopkins was not near his top form. Nunn was in his prime and was the best fighter in the world at the time.

We aren't talking about losses here so that Griffin talk is void.

I scored the Toney-Ruiz bout 9-3 Toney + the KD....but I could have seen 8-4. He hurt Ruiz worse than Jones and really beat his body and face up pretty bad. Jones didn't really land anything that stunned or hurt Ruiz but a couple of those right hand counters that Toney landed stunned him.

Toney also faced bigger punchers and fought McCallum two times more than Jones. McCallum in his old age was still a good fighter.

[AintGottaClue]

little off topic imo toeny did not beat jirov by any means, that scoring in that fight is absolutly horrible

[oldgringo]

little off topic imo toeny did not beat jirov by any means, that scoring in that fight is absolutly horrible

You obviously give rounds to people who just throw a lot of meaningless punches and don't land them. Seriously, you must have scored the DLH/Sturm fight for DLH in that case. Toney was landing the better punches and actually I believe he outlanded Jirov in power shots.

I had it 6-5 or 6-4-1 Toney going into the 12 and then Toney clearly won that round so yeah...

[Super_Lightweight]

hmm

Nunn was a harder fight than anyone Roy has on his record.

That's just because Nunn was a bad style matchup for Toney. Jones would have not had the problems Toney did with Nunn.

I've seen a lot of Hopkins fights and he was near top form if you ask me, Roy's style just didn't allow him to do much. Hopkins' style didn't change much just before and after Roy.

In my opinion, Jones landed more cleanly on Ruiz than did Toney, and he definitely looked better beating Ruiz than Toney did, however you score the rounds. Jones rocked Ruiz worse than Toney did at any point in the fight if you ask me. Ruiz was shook bad in the 5th or 6th by Roy and Toney never shook him like that.

If we are comparing comp, don't we have to compare losses if Toney and Roy faced the same guy and Jones beat that guy whereas Toney did not. I think if not, then it's not fair for you to say beating old McCallum multiple times (don't forget the draw and that Toney struggled with old Mike more than Roy did) helps Toney's resume stack up better than Roy's. Come on man.

I think Toney faced bigger punchers simply because he fought a lot of bigger guys, doesn't make his resume better.

You a Toney...fine. I'm a Roy fan, obviously. Still, I just don't see how you can say Toney's resume level of comp is any better than Roy's. Not clearly. If anything it should be close, and leave it at that. Not like we are comparing Muhammad Ali's comp to Arturo Gatti's comp.

[jack_the_rippuh]

I think the weight issue with Jones is overused. I'm not here to say if it's right or wrong, but for the Johnson fight he looked good at the weigh in, he didn't look sick (look at Simeraksou's avatar)..he just didn't train. Jones' biggest problems came after he decided not to focus himself on boxing. He also looked good in round 1 vs. Tarver. That punch Tarver landed would have knocked out any Roy Jones at 175lbs.

[Slipx]

When Vassiliy Jirov was 31-0 or whatever he was and was straight dominating everyone he faced he was definitely a legitimate top 10-12 p4p guy. Jirov was avoided like no other too.

Yeah, he was also fighting tomato cans, the only fighters he faced with less than 4 losses before his loss had padded records themselves

his next opponent has nine losses.

[oldgringo]

That's just because Nunn was a bad style matchup for Toney. Jones would have not had the problems Toney did with Nunn.

I've seen a lot of Hopkins fights and he was near top form if you ask me, Roy's style just didn't allow him to do much. Hopkins' style didn't change much just before and after Roy.

In my opinion, Jones landed more cleanly on Ruiz than did Toney, and he definitely looked better beating Ruiz than Toney did, however you score the rounds. Jones rocked Ruiz worse than Toney did at any point in the fight if you ask me. Ruiz was shook bad in the 5th or 6th by Roy and Toney never shook him like that.

If we are comparing comp, don't we have to compare losses if Toney and Roy faced the same guy and Jones beat that guy whereas Toney did not. I think if not, then it's not fair for you to say beating old McCallum multiple times (don't forget the draw and that Toney struggled with old Mike more than Roy did) helps Toney's resume stack up better than Roy's. Come on man.

I think Toney faced bigger punchers simply because he fought a lot of bigger guys, doesn't make his resume better.

You a Toney...fine. I'm a Roy fan, obviously. Still, I just don't see how you can say Toney's resume level of comp is any better than Roy's. Not clearly. If anything it should be close, and leave it at that. Not like we are comparing Muhammad Ali's comp to Arturo Gatti's comp.

You're extremely wrong about Jones not potentially having problems with Nunn. Nunn was an excellent pure boxer with handspeed, power in both fists, great footwork, a good chin, and just about the best all around game at the time. He would have given any middleweight a very hard time. Roy doesn't have nearly the chin that Toney has and it wouldn't have been a fight where nunn is just overwhelmed by Roys speed because Nunn was a very fast handed boxer himself with a good style to box with Roy.

I don't think it's up for debate whether the Hopkins that dominated and KOed Tito would have fared better against Roy. Hopkins was nowhere near the mental level that he is now, and he probably didn't know about half the tricks he does now. That was the Hopkins that was dropped twice and hurt by Segundo Mercado...Hopkins of 200 is a much smarter, more polished boxer.

Did you see the Toney right hand cam that they played in between rounds of the Toney/Ruiz fight? He landed just as often and harder than did Jones. Toney at HW is a much heavier puncher than is Roy. I don't see Roy being able to KO even the washed up Holyfield. I guess we just have different opinions there though since both guys picked him apart quite nicely.

The comp you face is based on the fighters you face and how many times you fight them. An older McCallum was still a good opponent and Toney faced him three times. Roy and Toney both fought Griffin twice, that's why I left him out of the equation.

It's true that their levels of comp are close, and I'm not saying that Toneys blows Roys out of the water, but I still think it was better overall.

[oldgringo]

Yeah, he was also fighting tomato cans, the only fighters he faced with less than 4 losses before his loss had padded records themselves

his next opponent has nine losses.

It's not rocket science to know that Jirov was a monster at Cruiser. Either you know or you don't, this isn't something you can tell from boxrec. He fought all of his mandatories and some of the above average names he beat were Castro, Letterlough (who he probably ruined), and an unbeaten Dale Brown (who was just blantantly robbed against O'Neil Bell).

It's not just that he beat everyone, but he KILLED them. Not a single one of his title fights were close until Toney came up and ****ed his whole career up.

Jirov was also avoided like no other by other top cruisers and guys coming up in weight. Roy could have fought him (I don't blaming him for fighting at HW though) and didn't.