Is Ali a bit overrated ?

[knn]

Current definitions have no authority over the previous ones.

You get it wrong again: New definitions have always prevalence over older definitions. That's why Titanic is not the biggest ship in the world and that's why Hitler is not the saviour anymore. And that's why the October revolution happened in November. Because new definitions trump old definitions.

The correct statement is that PAST definitions have no authority over FUTURE ones.

Ali was a "so-called heavyweight", a "then-heavyweight" or a "cruiserweight formerly known as heavyweight".

And everybody who is not a CLAYton can see it from the picture above.

Hey, if it makes you happy we can call Ali the "Champ in the Ultraweight division". Doesn't change the fact that he was merely a cruiser.

[tesla_power]

You are wrong. NOBODY regards 175+ as the heavyweight division. Don't give me some ancient definitions.

Noone cares that in the medieval ages 150lbs might have been called "heavyweight".

Such past definitions are the only things that CLAYtons cling to.

Everyone has eyes to see and 180 is 180 and 190 is 190. Now and then. No matter what you call it.

His record stand as it is. You seem to keep with the current conventions.

Say in basketball :

If you move the 3 point line now, would every 3 point made in basketball be scrutinize to the new line. And the official scores changed to fit the new definitions?

[knn]

His record stand as it is.

Exactly. Beating an 177lbs guy stays in his record as beating an 177lbs.

That you called it a "heavyweight fight" is completely irrelevant.

Say in basketball :

In basketball? Are you from the US?

[knn]

anyone who denies this looks like a heavyweight needs a brain scan.

Of course this is heavyweight. This is Ali 200+ vs Sonny 200+.

Ali's real heavyweight record (both opponents 200+) is 28-4.

[Vadrigar.]

Of course this is heavyweight. This is Ali 200+ vs Sonny 200+.

Ali's real heavyweight record (both opponents 200+) is 28-4.

Nope. He fought in the heavyweight division, so his record stands.

[Vadrigar.]

You get it wrong again: New definitions have always prevalence over older definitions. That's why Titanic is not the biggest ship in the world and that's why Hitler is not the saviour anymore. And that's why the October revolution happened in November. Because new definitions trump old definitions.

The correct statement is that PAST definitions have no authority over FUTURE ones.

Ali was a "so-called heavyweight", a "then-heavyweight" or a "cruiserweight formerly known as heavyweight".

And everybody who is not a CLAYton can see it from the picture above.

Hey, if it makes you happy we can call Ali the "Champ in the Ultraweight division". Doesn't change the fact that he was merely a cruiser.

titanic =/= boxing. Go on boxrec and check the record of muhammad ali and the division he fought in.

A quote from wikipedia:

"Sir Henry Cooper OBE, KSG (born 3 May 1934) in South East London, is a retired English heavyweight boxer and was the British, European and Commonwealth heavyweight champion in 1970. He is the only British boxer to win three Lonsdale Belts outright."

"Floyd Patterson (January 4, 1935 – May 11, 2006 in Waco, North Carolina) was an American 2-time world heavyweight boxing champion. At 21, Patterson was then the youngest man to win the world heavyweight championship and, later, the first to regain it."

"Brian London (real name Brian Sidney Harper, born 19 June 1934 in West Hartlepool is a retired English heavyweight boxer"

[knn]

Nope. He fought in the heavyweight division, so his record stands.

He fought in the what-then-was-called- heavyweight division.

The definition was changed 1979.
In 1979 the division has been redefined.

And by redefined I mean that it was one of the biggest mistakes to use the _same name_ ("heavyweight") for a completely different weight.

They should have called it "superweight" (or whatever) so that it would be sufficiently clear (even for the most deluded CLAYtons) that Ali has fought in a different division than Tyson, Lennox or Klitschko.

Olympics did it correctly:
Ali boxed as light-heavyweight while Klitschko boxed as superheavyweight.

That way nobody is confused.

Had the fight been in the pro-boxing arena both had been called "heavyweight".

[Vadrigar.]

He fought in the what-then-was-called- heavyweight division.

The definition was changed 1979.
In 1979 the division has been redefined.

And by redefined I mean that it was one of the biggest mistakes to use the _same name_ ("heavyweight") for a completely different weight.

They should have called it "superweight" (or whatever) so that it would be sufficiently clear (even for the most deluded CLAYtons) that Ali has fought in a different division than Tyson, Lennox or Klitschko.

No, by definition it was the heavyweight division. YTou cant supperimpose your frame of reference onto another era

[knn]

"Sir Henry Cooper OBE, KSG (born 3 May 1934) in South East London, is a retired English heavyweight boxer and was the British, European and Commonwealth heavyweight champion in 1970. He is the only British boxer to win three Lonsdale Belts outright."

Yeah? So? And George W. Bush is a retired president. Doesn't change the fact that he isn't a president anymore.

How old are you?

[knn]

No, by definition it was the heavyweight division.

Exactly. It _WAS_ the heavyweight division. Ali (193) vs Robinson (177) is _NOT_ the heavyweight division anymore.