Is Ali a bit overrated ?

[Vadrigar.]

Ali is undoubtedly an ATG and his accomplishments against his opposition at that time, was great. But he is seriously overrated by posters especially when being compared in H2H matches against current heavies. Tyson would have destroyed him, so would Lewis, so would both Klitschkos. He is being brought up as some mythical figure by some posters here, as if he was possessed some supernatural talent but you look at the fact that he was the physical specimen for his time and then look at the records of his opponents, all of a sudden he is not the Zeus some claim that he was.

Ali fought in the golden age of heavyweight boxing, so logically the competition of his era was the greatest.

[TheMagicMan]

"Out of the 61 times he fought, he was the bigger man 43 times." - It's not ALi's fault he was a naturally tall fighter. That's like criticising Hopkins for fighting in the middleweight division. Silly argument.

"His KO% ratio is 60% and he has more than ten guys who weighed in between 177-185 against him, when he was in the hight 190s or low 200s, so he was basically fighting guys at least one weight class below him." - That's not possible they have to weigh in at the heavyweight limit.

"He was obviously not that smart for taking so much punishment, granted we did not know as much about head trauma back then as we do now and the refs did not stop fights as early as they do now" - I excluded in ring smarts. I was referring to his broad knowledge of many subjects, like philosophy, for example.

"Fastest? No way, his speed is not at all impressive." - come on, that's just hating now.


"Greatest resume? Win to loss ratio, Tyson surpasses him on that and so does W. Klitschko" - Who did klitchko and tyson fight?


"He was not the only three-time champ. In terms of him being "lineal", it's much harder to become lineal these days with multiple belts, therefore when a fighter like Lewis does accomplish that, the accomplishment is much greater, much easier to capture 1 belt than multiple belts." - Not really, the lineal championship is a much greater accomplishment. It is much harder to become the lineal champion, but remember Ali did it three times. I'm not sure I think he is the only three time lineal champion.

"Vitaly Klitschko was also never knocked out in his career and only lost through injury, is VK the GOAT? (h2h I think he is but that is besides the point, we are talking about accomplishments)" - Ali would beat vitali klitcko, no question about that. You say he has never been knocked out, but against what quality competition did he resist this happening?

Tyson fought Holmes who retired Ali. Ali would not beat Vitali are you on drugs? How could anyone say that. What 250 lbs guy did Ali ever beat? You hear about "Big George"...Foreman weighed 2 lbs more than Ali...wow. Ali did beat a fat, slow, terrible Buster Mathis who was coming off of a loss of course. Vitali would murder Ali in the ring. Sorry, if Vitali fought Ali's resume he would be undefeated with 50 KO's in the first 3 rounds and 61 KO's total. You just dont get it. There was not Vitali back then. Its like putting Dwight Howard back in the 60's and 70's playing basketball. Its a different game. Vitali is bigger, stronger, smarter, with better endurance, than anyone Ali ever fought by a large margin. Look, Ali was dropped and forced to cheat by a 185 lbs fat bald british dude. 1 jab for Vitali would cave ali's head in. Also Vitali isnt punching himself out like Foreman. Vitali throws more punches than that anyways, and Vitali is too smart for those tactics. Sorry Ali wouldnt know what to do if he got in the ring with the God that is Vitali. Vitali would look bored, uninspired, and punch Ali's face in. Ali would hang on the ropes and Vit was pound him like he was meat.

Also Vitali isnt getting intimidated by the Black Panthers.

[WladIsTheChamp]

No way tyson would destroy him. Ali would give tyson a nervous breakdown and then mentally destroy him in the ring. The physical part would be easy.

LOL at lewis destroying him. Come on? there is no way that was possible.

No one can beat Ali in h2h matches. Only larry holmes has the greatest chance, but even then Ali would win a split decision.

All I am saying is: WATCH the Cleveland Williams fight. The protection of god was around him in that fight.

Man, that's crazy talk right there. Protection of god? Why would god care which fighter beats another fighter? Cleveland Williams? Who the hell was he? All I can tell you is that Cleveland Williams was 12 years older than Ali and already had 5 losses including 3 by KO when Ali beat him. Are you saying that was some great accomplishment?

[warlike penguin]

no no no !!!

never !!!

[WladIsTheChamp]

Ali fought in the golden age of heavyweight boxing, so logically the competition of his era was the greatest.

According to your logic. Golden age for the US HWs maybe but now the sport is truly international. You are forgetting that HWs from the Soviet bloc countries did not start to box professionally until 1990. Look what happened, we took over the HW divsion after that. All you hear from Americans is: "all our big men are playing football and basketball at the moment." Yeah right, LOL....

[Vadrigar.]

"His KO% ratio is 60% and he has more than ten guys who weighed in between 177-185 against him, when he was in the hight 190s or low 200s, so he was basically fighting guys at least one weight class below him." - That's not possible they have to weigh in at the heavyweight limit. - This one sentence destroyed all your credibility, and here I was thinking you actually knew what you were talking about. It was possible back then because there was no strict adherence to weight limits as there are now, go look at boxrec, it doesn't lie, it lists the weigh-in weight of the fighters before the fight. Ali actually fought 177lbs pound guys and guys who were 180lbs when he was 220 (Bob Foster), yep that's your hero right there, a solid HW picking on a guy that is barely above 175. You are forgetting that the HW weights were actually 185lbs prior to Ali's time (go look up Marcianno's weight) and Ali was the first "super-HW" that started the trend. There were freaks like Primo Carnera that were the Valuevs of today but they literally had no skill. Ali was the first super-sized (for his time) skilled HW.

Ali never "picked" on anyone. So that cancels out your post. He gave people shots at the title.

This "weight" argument dosent hold any weight. If you look in boxrec you will see that their is no cherry picking going on, the weights for the fights are all pretty much random and jumbled up. I have seen people on there that weigh more than him and some that weigh less.

For example he fought brian london straight after henry cooper. This cannot be cherry picking because they were both of comparable weight.

I could bring up manny more examples.

When ALi was a contender he had to earn his shot at the title.
When Ali was a champion other people had to earn their shot at the title.

I don't see anything wrong with this simple formula.

[TheMagicMan]

Ali never "picked" on anyone. So that cancels out your post. He gave people shots at the title.

This "weight" argument dosent hold any weight. If you look in boxrec you will see that their is no cherry picking going on, the weights for the fights are all pretty much random and jumbled up. I have seen people on there that weigh more than him and some that weigh less.

For example he fought brian london straight after henry cooper. This cannot be cherry picking because they were both of comparable weight.

I could bring up manny more examples.

When ALi was a contender he had to earn his shot at the title.
When Ali was a champion other people had to earn their shot at the title.

I don't see anything wrong with this simple formula.

How did Brian London or Chuck Wepner earn their shot? hell how did Buster Mathis earn his shot? Ali cherry picked everyone. He was a coward. He was afraid of everything. Why didnt he give Doug Jones a rematch and why the hell would he even fight Henry Cooper, let alone twice? THAT DONT MAKE NO SENSE.

[Vadrigar.]

Man, that's crazy talk right there. Protection of god? Why would god care which fighter beats another fighter? Cleveland Williams? Who the hell was he? All I can tell you is that Cleveland Williams was 12 years older than Ali and already had 5 losses including 3 by KO when Ali beat him. Are you saying that was some great accomplishment?

It was clear who's side God was on, in that fight.

Cleveland Williams could be one of the hardest punchers ever.

But anyway, the MANNER in which Ali fought that fight was just mind blowing.

[Vadrigar.]

Tyson fought Holmes who retired Ali. Ali would not beat Vitali are you on drugs? How could anyone say that. What 250 lbs guy did Ali ever beat? You hear about "Big George"...Foreman weighed 2 lbs more than Ali...wow. Ali did beat a fat, slow, terrible Buster Mathis who was coming off of a loss of course. Vitali would murder Ali in the ring. Sorry, if Vitali fought Ali's resume he would be undefeated with 50 KO's in the first 3 rounds and 61 KO's total. You just dont get it. There was not Vitali back then. Its like putting Dwight Howard back in the 60's and 70's playing basketball. Its a different game. Vitali is bigger, stronger, smarter, with better endurance, than anyone Ali ever fought by a large margin. Look, Ali was dropped and forced to cheat by a 185 lbs fat bald british dude. 1 jab for Vitali would cave ali's head in. Also Vitali isnt punching himself out like Foreman. Vitali throws more punches than that anyways, and Vitali is too smart for those tactics. Sorry Ali wouldnt know what to do if he got in the ring with the God that is Vitali. Vitali would look bored, uninspired, and punch Ali's face in. Ali would hang on the ropes and Vit was pound him like he was meat.

Also Vitali isnt getting intimidated by the Black Panthers.

"Tyson fought Holmes who retired Ali" - Ali was an old man with parkinsons disease when he fought holmes. This is triangle theory ridiculous.

"Ali would not beat Vitali are you on drugs? How could anyone say that. What 250 lbs guy did Ali ever beat?" - All the more easier to beat. Vitali's Weight is an advantage for ALi

"You hear about "Big George"...Foreman weighed 2 lbs more than Ali...wow." - could be the hardest puncher of all time. That's what I call wow.

"Ali did beat a fat, slow, terrible Buster Mathis who was coming off of a loss of course." - He wasn't terrible fat and slow.

"Vitali would murder Ali in the ring. Sorry, if Vitali fought Ali's resume he would be undefeated with 50 KO's in the first 3 rounds and 61 KO's total." - vitali would be dead by now if he tried to go through ali's resume. Ali would destroy vitali

[TheMagicMan]

Cleveland Williams could be one of the hardest punchers ever.

But anyway, the MANNER in which Ali fought that fight was just mind blowing.

CLEVELAND WILLIAMS HAD BEEN SHOT RIGHT BEFORE THE FIGHT. What the hell are you talking about. How can anyone talk about that win as an accomplishment. He didnt even have a large intestine. Not that Cleveland Williams was ever that good, but seriously this has to be a joke.