Is Ali a bit overrated ?

[Vadrigar.]

Ali wasn't lucky, but comparing facial damage to judge a fight is super weak. Who do you think suffered more body damage in that fight?

Who was tko'd after the 14th round? -frazier

Who winning the fight on scorecards? - ALi

Who suffered more head damage during the fight? - Frazier.

[Flab]

Na.

























































He is MAJORLY overrated.

[WladIsTheChamp]

This a silly post. Ali fought EVERY fighter there was to fight. The media were even saying towards the end of his career that there was no one else left for him to fight. You can't say that for many ATG's in history can you?

Ali didn't fight light HW and CW for most of his career. That's just silly. There are weight classes in boxing not height classes.

The Ali that fought cleveland williams, no one in the history of the heavyweight division past and present could beat him.

Ali's power is underrated, actually. You should see the string of knock outs he got in his early career. He even managed to TKO/KO fighters late in his career.

He is also a three time lineal heavyweaight champion. Not the bull**** belts that you have today.


"I think part of the reason why a lot of people have him as GOAT on their lists because of the great marketing he did for himself, he even said so himself."

this is ridiculous because if you just glance at his resume, you will see it is arguably the greatest of all time.

He is the greatest of all time.

He is the bravest fighter of all time.
He is the smartest boxer of all time (not including ring IQ) .
He is the fastest heavyweight of all time.
Possibly the greatest resume of all time.
Fastest heavyweight of all time.
THREE time LINIAL heavyweight champion of the world
NEVER knocked out in his career.
top 10 ATG heavyweight chin.

The list goes on and on......

Out of the 61 times he fought, he was the bigger man 43 times. His KO% ratio is 60% and he has more than ten guys who weighed in between 177-185 against him, when he was in the hight 190s or low 200s, so he was basically fighting guys at least one weight class below him. He was obviously not that smart for taking so much punishment, granted we did not know as much about head trauma back then as we do now and the refs did not stop fights as early as they do now, but still... Fastest? No way, his speed is not at all impressive. Greatest resume? Win to loss ratio, Tyson surpasses him on that and so does W. Klitschko. He was not the only three-time champ. In terms of him being "lineal", it's much harder to become lineal these days with multiple belts, therefore when a fighter like Lewis does accomplish that, the accomplishment is much greater, much easier to capture 1 belt than multiple belts. Vitaly Klitschko was also never knocked out in his career and only lost through injury, is VK the GOAT? (h2h I think he is but that is besides the point, we are talking about accomplishments)

[WladIsTheChamp]

I meant win-to-loss ratio of his opponents.

[WladIsTheChamp]

I am saying he is top 6, you are saying he is top 3, not much argument I think. We just disagree on the GOAT monicker.

[Vadrigar.]

Out of the 61 times he fought, he was the bigger man 43 times. His KO% ratio is 60% and he has more than ten guys who weighed in between 177-185 against him, when he was in the hight 190s or low 200s, so he was basically fighting guys at least one weight class below him. He was obviously not that smart for taking so much punishment, granted we did not know as much about head trauma back then as we do now and the refs did not stop fights as early as they do now, but still... Fastest? No way, his speed is not at all impressive. Greatest resume? Win to loss ratio, Tyson surpasses him on that and so does W. Klitschko. He was not the only three-time champ. In terms of him being "lineal", it's much harder to become lineal these days with multiple belts, therefore when a fighter like Lewis does accomplish that, the accomplishment is much greater, much easier to capture 1 belt than multiple belts. Vitaly Klitschko was also never knocked out in his career and only lost through injury, is VK the GOAT? (h2h I think he is but that is besides the point, we are talking about accomplishments)

"Out of the 61 times he fought, he was the bigger man 43 times." - It's not ALi's fault he was a naturally tall fighter. That's like criticising Hopkins for fighting in the middleweight division. Silly argument.

"His KO% ratio is 60% and he has more than ten guys who weighed in between 177-185 against him, when he was in the hight 190s or low 200s, so he was basically fighting guys at least one weight class below him." - That's not possible they have to weigh in at the heavyweight limit.

"He was obviously not that smart for taking so much punishment, granted we did not know as much about head trauma back then as we do now and the refs did not stop fights as early as they do now" - I excluded in ring smarts. I was referring to his broad knowledge of many subjects, like philosophy, for example.

"Fastest? No way, his speed is not at all impressive." - come on, that's just hating now.


"Greatest resume? Win to loss ratio, Tyson surpasses him on that and so does W. Klitschko" - Who did klitchko and tyson fight?


"He was not the only three-time champ. In terms of him being "lineal", it's much harder to become lineal these days with multiple belts, therefore when a fighter like Lewis does accomplish that, the accomplishment is much greater, much easier to capture 1 belt than multiple belts." - Not really, the lineal championship is a much greater accomplishment. It is much harder to become the lineal champion because the "contender" process was much much tougher. But remember Ali did it three times. I'm not sure but I think he is the only three time lineal champion.

"Vitaly Klitschko was also never knocked out in his career and only lost through injury, is VK the GOAT? (h2h I think he is but that is besides the point, we are talking about accomplishments)" - Ali would beat vitali klitcko, no question about that. You say he has never been knocked out, but against what quality competition did he resist this happening?

What kind of punchers did vitali fight?

[Vadrigar.]

I am saying he is top 6, you are saying he is top 3, not much argument I think. We just disagree on the GOAT monicker.

ok fine. But I think top six is really really harsh IMO.

[WladIsTheChamp]

Ali is undoubtedly an ATG and his accomplishments against his opposition at that time, was great. But he is seriously overrated by posters especially when being compared in H2H matches against current heavies. Tyson would have destroyed him, so would Lewis, so would both Klitschkos. He is being brought up as some mythical figure by some posters here, as if he was possessed some supernatural talent but you look at the fact that he was the physical specimen for his time and then look at the records of his opponents, all of a sudden he is not the Zeus some claim that he was.

[Vadrigar.]

Ali is undoubtedly an ATG and his accomplishments against his opposition at that time, was great. But he is seriously overrated by posters especially when being compared in H2H matches against current heavies. Tyson would have destroyed him, so would Lewis, so would both Klitschkos. He is being brought up as some mythical figure by some posters here, as if he was possessed some supernatural talent but you look at the fact that he was the physical specimen for his time and then look at the records of his opponents, all of a sudden he is not the Zeus some claim that he was.

No way tyson would destroy him. Ali would give tyson a nervous breakdown and then mentally destroy him in the ring. The physical part would be easy.

LOL at lewis destroying him. Come on? there is no way that was possible.

No one can beat Ali in h2h matches. Only larry holmes has the greatest chance, but even then Ali would win a split decision.

All I am saying is: WATCH the Cleveland Williams fight. The protection of god was around him in that fight.

[WladIsTheChamp]

"Out of the 61 times he fought, he was the bigger man 43 times." - It's not ALi's fault he was a naturally tall fighter. That's like criticising Hopkins for fighting in the middleweight division. Silly argument.

"His KO% ratio is 60% and he has more than ten guys who weighed in between 177-185 against him, when he was in the hight 190s or low 200s, so he was basically fighting guys at least one weight class below him." - That's not possible they have to weigh in at the heavyweight limit.

"He was obviously not that smart for taking so much punishment, granted we did not know as much about head trauma back then as we do now and the refs did not stop fights as early as they do now" - I excluded in ring smarts. I was referring to his broad knowledge of many subjects, like philosophy, for example.

"Fastest? No way, his speed is not at all impressive." - come on, that's just hating now.


"Greatest resume? Win to loss ratio, Tyson surpasses him on that and so does W. Klitschko" - Who did klitchko and tyson fight?


"He was not the only three-time champ. In terms of him being "lineal", it's much harder to become lineal these days with multiple belts, therefore when a fighter like Lewis does accomplish that, the accomplishment is much greater, much easier to capture 1 belt than multiple belts." - Not really, the lineal championship is a much greater accomplishment. It is much harder to become the lineal champion because the "contender" process was much much tougher. But remember Ali did it three times. I'm not sure but I think he is the only three time lineal champion.

"Vitaly Klitschko was also never knocked out in his career and only lost through injury, is VK the GOAT? (h2h I think he is but that is besides the point, we are talking about accomplishments)" - Ali would beat vitali klitcko, no question about that. You say he has never been knocked out, but against what quality competition did he resist this happening?

What kind of punchers did vitali fight?

"His KO% ratio is 60% and he has more than ten guys who weighed in between 177-185 against him, when he was in the hight 190s or low 200s, so he was basically fighting guys at least one weight class below him." - That's not possible they have to weigh in at the heavyweight limit. - This one sentence destroyed all your credibility, and here I was thinking you actually knew what you were talking about. It was possible back then because there was no strict adherence to weight limits as there are now, go look at boxrec, it doesn't lie, it lists the weigh-in weight of the fighters before the fight. Ali actually fought 177lbs pound guys and guys who were 180lbs when he was 220 (Bob Foster), yep that's your hero right there, a solid HW picking on a guy that is barely above 175. You are forgetting that the HW weights were actually 185lbs prior to Ali's time (go look up Marcianno's weight) and Ali was the first "super-HW" that started the trend. There were freaks like Primo Carnera that were the Valuevs of today but they literally had no skill. Ali was the first super-sized (for his time) skilled HW.