Sonny Liston - The Man Behind The Myth?

[The Troll]

I can say the same about Tyson, except that I would have more than a short clip to support my position.

This is the full disgracefull display by Sonny Liston against Cassius Clay in the second fight. Nobody who disrespects the sport of boxing like Liston did in this fight deserves to be called a "good" let alone "great" fighter.

http://s6.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=2...NW30HUJ3XFSYHD3

[Martin (Top Knowledge)]

Anorak - I'm pissed... And still waiting for the boxing to start... (But I've got more beer) ... So if I rant... Please excuses me!... LOL!///

Kid Achilles, Mckay told me that the only thing Mike Tyson needs to do to win the Heavyweight title, is to stop fighting at 230lbs-235lbs and get down to 220lbs.

This is AFTER the McBride fight... So who knows what's going on in his head...

He's not willing to accept that Tyson is a shot fighter...

[Yogi]

Oh he's a complex individual bohoohoo boohoo . He is bumb and disgrace to boxing for taking that pathetic looking dive vs Cassius Clay in the second fight. He was a junkie as well. And he is drastically overrated. Whoever heard of those bumbs you mentioned.

I don't like to flame people on the net, but after reading this post I must admit that the word "*******" has popped into my mind.

Dude, I'VE heard (and to a lesser extent, saw) plenty of both Eddie Machen and Zora Folley, and if you even had some semblance of a clue in regards to that era of Heavyweight boxing, you certainly would to...Yet you've never heard of them and you call them "bums" (corrected your spelling)?

You see, both Eddie Machen and Zora Folley were probably the two most natural talented heavyweights of that era of the late 50's/early 60's, as both pure boxer types were very crafty, very skilled, very quick, and very elusive (Folley was probably the slightly more talenetd of the two, but Machen could take it better)...They were also the two most prominent fighters from that era that Cus D'Amato and Floyd Patterson avoided like the plague (along with Williams and Nino Valdes). You ever heard of the term, "mandatory challenger"? I'm sure you have, but did you know that Patterosn's avoidance of both Machen and Folley went a long way in starting that practice of a champion making defenses against his mandatory. In between Marciano's retirement and Liston's rise to the top, most of that time you'd find either Eddie Machen or Zora Folley planted in that #1 contender spot.

I usually like to back up those type of statements with ratings, but since I don't have any late 50's rankings handy, I'll present some from Sept. of 1962 (Ring), when both Machen and Folley were beginning to decline;

Champion: Floyd Patterson

1: Sonny Liston
2: EDDIE MACHEN
3: ZORA FOLLEY
4: Ingemar Johansson
5: Archie Moore
6: Cleveland Williams
7: Robert Cleroux
8: Henry Cooper
9: Cassius Clay
10: Alejandro Lavorante

Those two were thought of pretty highly even after both had lost to Liston, don't you think?

And where did you get this information that Liston was a "junkie"? If you're so sure Liston died as a result of him being a "junkie", then you're the ONLY one in this whole world that is sure about that...You see there has always been a big mystery surrounding Liston's death from a heroin overdose, because NO ONE who was close to Liston at the time, had ever had any knowledge that he was involved in drugs. Here check out this little tidbit, which is from the bio on Sonny Liston in 'Mike Tyson: Release of Power';

"There were strong rumours that mystery man Liston had been "eliminated" by gangster associates."

If you're so ****ing positive that he died because of a self-inflicted drug overdose, you might want to contact some people who've been trying to solve that mystery for the last 35 years.

[Yogi]

Just a little follow up on Eddie Machen and Zora Folley...

Those two very taleneted Heavyweights have always been linked together because of their similiar styles and the fact that they were avoided by Patterson. What's really unfortunate though, is both fighters are also linked togther in death, because the two died tragically and accidentally only a few weeks apart in 1972.

Zora Folley was spending an afternoon by the pool, when he slipped on the wet concrete, ****** his head, fell ito the pool...Drowned!

Eddie Machen was a sleepwalker and that lead to his death one night when he got out of bed in his high rise apartment suite, sleepwalked towards a large plate glass window, crashed through it...You figure out what happenes when you fall from a high rise building!

[Guest]

And My name is not that f***ing hard to spell. So get it right Achilles.

Bum's hard to spell though, right?

[The Troll]

I don't like to flame people on the net, but after reading this post I must admit that the word "*******" has popped into my mind.

Dude, I'VE heard (and to a lesser extent, saw) plenty of both Eddie Machen and Zora Folley, and if you even had some semblance of a clue in regards to that era of Heavyweight boxing, you certainly would to...Yet you've never heard of them and you call them "bums" (corrected your spelling)?

You see, both Eddie Machen and Zora Folley were probably the two most natural talented heavyweights of that era of the late 50's/early 60's, as both pure boxer types were very crafty, very skilled, very quick, and very elusive (Folley was probably the slightly more talenetd of the two, but Machen could take it better)...They were also the two most prominent fighters from that era that Cus D'Amato and Floyd Patterson avoided like the plague (along with Williams and Nino Valdes). You ever heard of the term, "mandatory challenger"? I'm sure you have, but did you know that Patterosn's avoidance of both Machen and Folley went a long way in starting that practice of a champion making defenses against his mandatory. In between Marciano's retirement and Liston's rise to the top, most of that time you'd find either Eddie Machen or Zora Folley planted in that #1 contender spot.

I usually like to back up those type of statements with ratings, but since I don't have any late 50's rankings handy, I'll present some from Sept. of 1962 (Ring), when both Machen and Folley were beginning to decline;

Champion: Floyd Patterson

1: Sonny Liston
2: EDDIE MACHEN
3: ZORA FOLLEY
4: Ingemar Johansson
5: Archie Moore
6: Cleveland Williams
7: Robert Cleroux
8: Henry Cooper
9: Cassius Clay
10: Alejandro Lavorante

Those two were thought of pretty highly even after both had lost to Liston, don't you think?

And where did you get this information that Liston was a "junkie"? If you're so sure Liston died as a result of him being a "junkie", then you're the ONLY one in this whole world that is sure about that...You see there has always been a big mystery surrounding Liston's death from a heroin overdose, because NO ONE who was close to Liston at the time, had ever had any knowledge that he was involved in drugs. Here check out this little tidbit, which is from the bio on Sonny Liston in 'Mike Tyson: Release of Power';

"There were strong rumours that mystery man Liston had been "eliminated" by gangster associates."

If you're so ****ing positive that he died because of a self-inflicted drug overdose, you might want to contact some people who've been trying to solve that mystery for the last 35 years.

Look at all this ramble ^^^^^^^^. Did you watch the video I posted? The guy is a disgrace if there ever was one.

[Guest]

Look at all this ramble ^^^^^^^^. Did you watch the video I posted? The guy is a disgrace if there ever was one.

This is what I don't understand, McKay. You could see that the original thread post was a long one... the rest of the responses have been the same.

If you just wanted to talk smack, why not start another thread? Your responses are hardly related to the subject in the first place anyway.

[The Troll]

This is what I don't understand, McKay. You could see that the original thread post was a long one... the rest of the responses have been the same.

If you just wanted to talk smack, why not start another thread? Your responses are hardly related to the subject in the first place anyway.

How is a posting of video of Cassius Clay vs Sonny Liston II and discussing that fight "not related to the subject matter"? Would you care to explain that?

The dive Liston took against Clay in the second fight is what the bumb ought to be remembered for.

[paul750]

Look at all this ramble ^^^^^^^^. Did you watch the video I posted? The guy is a disgrace if there ever was one.

it's not ramble mckay it's the truth, liston was a very gifted guy, don't base the ali fights on him.

[The Troll]

it's not ramble mckay it's the truth, liston was a very gifted guy, don't base the ali fights on him.

He was not a very gifted actor.

Oh maybe I should remember him for being legit KO'd in his bid for the NABF title.

Guys Who take dives in fights for the Undisputed Heavyweight Championship of the World are Bumbs. They deserve no praise.