Why was Michael Spinks known as the greatest light heavyweight ever? Was he really ?

[RoyFlapsHisLips]

I realize that but Spinks was a remarkable fighter during his whole career.

I hear you, I guess you can just say what he did at heavy improves his overall status--not just his lightheavy status.

[LTJ]

Ezzard, Archie, and Gene make it difficult to make Spinks #1. However, Spinks is the only undefeated light heavy in the history of boxing (a division that spans 100+) years. He also was never knocked down at 175.

[Yogi]

I hear you, I guess you can just say what he did at heavy improves his overall status--not just his lightheavy status.

What did he do at Heavyweight that was so special?

-He won the title from Holmes with a close and controversial decision, and then was VERY lucky to get the verdict in the rematch when Holmes was pretty much robbed outright (I scored both fights for Holmes and the second one was by a very clear margin).

-He defeated a recovering and depressed alcoholic/druggie, who was well past is best (and his best wasn't that great to begin with), in Gerry Cooney.

-Steffan *snicker* Tangstad?

-Mike Tyson KO-1 Michael Spinks

Seeing as how Carl Williams gave Holmes a tougher fight than did Spinks (I had Williams edging Holmes in that one), I can't say that was such a great accomplishment.

[spinksjinx]

What did he do at Heavyweight that was so special?

-He won the title from Holmes with a close and controversial decision, and then was VERY lucky to get the verdict in the rematch when Holmes was pretty much robbed outright (I scored both fights for Holmes and the second one was by a very clear margin).

-He defeated a recovering and depressed alcoholic/druggie, who was well past is best (and his best wasn't that great to begin with), in Gerry Cooney.

-Steffan *snicker* Tangstad?

-Mike Tyson KO-1 Michael Spinks

Seeing as how Carl Williams gave Holmes a tougher fight than did Spinks (I had Williams edging Holmes in that one), I can't say that was such a great accomplishment.

I think the Holmes fight was such a thing was because all of the odds was against Michael (for obvious reasons). Michael wasnt a very big man and Holmes was on top of his game. I thought Spinks edged out in their first fight and never saw the rematch. I do believe however that Spinks was one of the most intelligent fighters. Spinks is still the man and can easily be ranked in anyones top 5 top light heavy list.

[RoyFlapsHisLips]

What did he do at Heavyweight that was so special?

-He won the title from Holmes with a close and controversial decision, and then was VERY lucky to get the verdict in the rematch when Holmes was pretty much robbed outright (I scored both fights for Holmes and the second one was by a very clear margin).

-He defeated a recovering and depressed alcoholic/druggie, who was well past is best (and his best wasn't that great to begin with), in Gerry Cooney.

-Steffan *snicker* Tangstad?

-Mike Tyson KO-1 Michael Spinks

Seeing as how Carl Williams gave Holmes a tougher fight than did Spinks (I had Williams edging Holmes in that one), I can't say that was such a great accomplishment.

I'm not saying it elevates him 15 spots in pfp alltime, but what he did has to be taken into some consideration--particularly regarding the Homes fights..

[Yogi]

I think the Holmes fight was such a thing was because all of the odds was against Michael (for obvious reasons). Michael wasnt a very big man and Holmes was on top of his game. I thought Spinks edged out in their first fight and never saw the rematch. I do believe however that Spinks was one of the most intelligent fighters. Spinks is still the man and can easily be ranked in anyones top 5 top light heavy list.

Holmes wasn't on top of his game though, man...Definately not. He had been noticably slipping a few years before that fight and by that time had gone on his "I'll defend against whatever novice I can find" tour. He wasn't nearly the same fighter he was in the late 70's/early 80's and that was shown in his fights against the likes of Tim Witherspoon (a relative novice at that point, who could've been given the decision over Holmes), Bonecrusher Smith (who Holmes really struggled with) and Carl Williams (who I thought edged Holmes with his movement, quickness and jab).

And I can't really argue with your opinion that Spinks won the first fight with Holmes, because that fight was close enough to maybe go either way. I thought Holmes edged it, whereas you thought Spinks edged it...That's probably a minor disagreement of only a couple of rounds that we scored differently, and it's really not worth the effort arguing about it. But if you were to see the Holmes/Williams fight and judge it strictly on the action in the ring, I think you'd find that Spinks did nothing that Williams didn't do previously.

[spinksjinx]

Holmes wasn't on top of his game though, man...Definately not. He had been noticably slipping a few years before that fight and by that time had gone on his "I'll defend against whatever novice I can find" tour. He wasn't nearly the same fighter he was in the late 70's/early 80's and that was shown in his fights against the likes of Tim Witherspoon (a relative novice at that point, who could've been given the decision over Holmes), Bonecrusher Smith (who Holmes really struggled with) and Carl Williams (who I thought edged Holmes with his movement, quickness and jab).

And I can't really argue with your opinion that Spinks won the first fight with Holmes, because that fight was close enough to maybe go either way. I thought Holmes edged it, whereas you thought Spinks edged it...That's probably a minor disagreement of only a couple of rounds that we scored differently, and it's really not worth the effort arguing about it. But if you were to see the Holmes/Williams fight and judge it strictly on the action in the ring, I think you'd find that Spinks did nothing that Williams didn't do previously.

But Williams wasnt a light heavyweight that is what made it so great is that Michael was VERY small and wasnt a big man and Holmes was this beast. If Spinks was an average heavyweight it wouldnt have really mattered but since Spinks had such a tremendous career at 175 and going up to beat the beast that is what made it significant.

[Yogi]

But Williams wasnt a light heavyweight that is what made it so great is that Michael was VERY small and wasnt a big man and Holmes was this beast. If Spinks was an average heavyweight it wouldnt have really mattered but since Spinks had such a tremendous career at 175 and going up to beat the beast that is what made it significant.

So Spinks went up and arguably beat a top Heavyweight, who by that time was no longer "great" and was only "very good" (at the most, since he didn't seem any better than Carl Williams by that point in time)?

Big deal, says I, since guys like Charles, Langford and Tunney also went up in weight and without the controversy, they also defeated top heavyweights of their day (to an extent and with the exception of Foster, MOST all-time Light Heavyweights have had success against highly ranked Heavyweights of their time).

[spinksjinx]

So Spinks went up and arguably beat a top Heavyweight, who by that time was no longer "great" and was only "very good" (at the most, since he didn't seem any better than Carl Williams by that point in time)?

Big deal, says I, since guys like Charles, Langford and Tunney also went up in weight and without the controversy, they also defeated top heavyweights of their day (to an extent and with the exception of Foster, MOST all-time Light Heavyweights have had success against highly ranked Heavyweights of their time).

In 86 Holmes was the best champion the division had to offer, you cant put a man down for that.

[SacTown1]

Michael Spinks and Michael Moorer, POTENTIALLY, were the 2 best light heavyweight in history....I emphasize potentially, because the $$$ at heavyweight was too big to pass up, so both guys short-changed their 175lb legacies to help pad their bank accounts by moving up in weight vs. establishing themselves as the greatest light heavyweight champs in history (not that there's anything wrong with that, boxing is a business after all)