You can't respect Wladimir Klitschko...

[Tiozzo]

Look man. That version of wlad also had a much higher punch output and threw a much larger variety of punches. Overall he was a punching machine.

Today he is very technical and more methodical in his approach. He's a completely different fighter. The defensive core is still there. Clinch, use your size to take our your opponenets legs etc - but his offense is very calculated now and he wouldn't expend himself as he would previously.

He was an offensive machine, now he's more of a defensive machine. He's more more laid back and comfortable in there. I think you fail to see the subtle AND drastic changes he's made.

Not to mention, the fact that he carries people to decisions or (LATE) stoppages IMO is more evidence that his loss to Brewster has plagued him, he doesn't want to risk going all out unsuccessfully again. Each loss has mad him stronger IMO, you see it in his game. He's methodical because of the brewster fight ,he's defensive because of the sanders fight.

Those losses helped create what we have today, I wouldn't expect him to have those issues again. Although a well planted punch to the face really doesn't give him a choice. ANyone goes out to that, but the chances are far more unlikely now.

good post overall, but saying he used to be a punching machine is an exaggeration, let's say he was more offense minded than now

it is undeniable his losses have contributed to making him a better fighter (more boring too, but I'll leave that aside)

with that said, nothing proves he has improved what I see as his biggest flaw : the way he responds to combinations of power punches and real aggressivity

if you are afraid of incoming punches, being more careful and methodical won't help you reacting to power punch flurries

as I have already said, Wlad doesn't counter or trade, he will stop everything he's doing if you attack him showing no respect, and if he fails to move out of the way or hold on to you, he's in trouble, that dude doesn't know how to block punches (he doesn't want to block punches, he prefers to get out of the way with movement or hold on to you to stop you from punching)

I believe he still have issues with any fighter who will dare to jump on him and fire combinations, because he still freezes and clinch and hold when an opponent goes in attack mode

so I think my theory is intact for now

[Tiozzo]

The only thing thats changed is his opponent selection Since Peter(his last legit threat) hes faced aging 36 yr old thompson, 36 yr old stegaurus Austin, a couple of soft Eastern Euro fighters, and a feather fisted Eddie Chambers who he outweighed by 35 lbs.

Hes not better the HWD just sucks.

Go find one HW besides Valuev who outwighs his opponents by 35 lbs!

this is not a fair statement

Wlad has faced the best available competition post-Peter, some of which were legit threats : undefeated Brock, undefeated Chagaev, undefeated Ibragimov, Brewster II

in the end, they all fought the wrong fight and all gave a poor effort for a reason or another, but on paper, these fighters were all legit threats

[intoccabile]

The only thing thats changed is his opponent selection Since Peter(his last legit threat) hes faced aging 36 yr old thompson, 36 yr old stegaurus Austin, a couple of soft Eastern Euro fighters, and a feather fisted Eddie Chambers who he outweighed by 35 lbs.

Hes not better the HWD just sucks.

Go find one HW besides Valuev who outwighs his opponents by 35 lbs!

Jesus christ. Watch Wlad vs Mercer..

Then watch Wlad vs Chambers, ibrogamov, brock, the list goes on.

He's a completely different fight now. He threw everything but the kitchen sink at Mercer, today against smaller men he's breaking them down, not expending himself.

He's learned a lot from those losses. Why are you guys so oblivious?

[intoccabile]

Mercer applied no pressure at all, barely even punched. and wlad still felt the need to tee off. I repeat, he was an offensive machine. His defense was his offense at the time. His stance and everything was different. he'd square up and lean over. he'd throw many combinations both head and body. He was known not just for his power, but his incredible speed and his incredible left hook which he'd double and triple on occasion. He had already thrown 170punches in 2 rounds for crying out loud against mercer!

Today? the complete opposite. His offense is his jab and the occasional hook or right hand. The clinch is his best friend, he circles around you while still commanding the ring and has no problem with letting you off the ropes. he uses his reach to his advantage and he doesn't throw near as many punches - he preserves himself.




Now look at wlads stance..he no longer squares up, no longer hunches over.
He stays up right using full advantage of his height, and he stays at the end of his punches. he also likes to keep his left hand out there as a measuring stick now as well as a stiff arm.



Or how about the against the smaller extremely passive Eddie Chambers?



Even when he has these men hurt now, he doesn't rush in looking for the immidiate KO. Often times he lets them often the hook by not moving in at all or by not moving in soon enough. If you don't see the drastic changes I don't know what to tell you. He's transformed, mentally. He fights a safer fight now because he's afraid. His past haunts him. I can define the way he fights now in 1 word; disciplined.

We've mentioned Peters a lot. As i said before, wlads defense was his offense before. Against brewster (who this thread was made on) Wlad wasn't just uncomfortable because of the pressure, he was uncomfortable because he didn't have the center of the ring. He was 1 dimensional in the sense that if you could take the ring from him, he would go into a panic mode. His panic mode was to throw punches and try to knock you out as soon as possible - that back fired.

As seen against mercer, he's always moving foward. He needs to have full control of the ring, he wants the majority of the ring behind him. Wlad today? Not the same fighter. He is ok with giving up the ring. he's alright with backing up and circling.

Watch against Peter, instead of fighting to regain the center of the ring like he would have in the past, he lets peters have it and uses his bike, boxing from the outside a lot and staying on his toes.



These are all very big changes, subtle to the eye, but HUGE in the ring. I box, everyday, I'm working on my own career as we speak. I look at stuff like this and I feel like maybe sometimes I am looking to deep or am trying to convince myself that I see things others don't. This isn't hard to see though. Wlad is a disciplined fighter now - he's matured out of fear. His fear has made him more cautious, his caution has increased his awareness. Although it's made him a more boring fighter, it's made him a more accomplished one as well.

[Tiozzo]

Mercer applied no pressure at all, barely even punched. and wlad still felt the need to tee off. I repeat, he was an offensive machine. His defense was his offense at the time. His stance and everything was different. he'd square up and lean over. he'd throw many combinations both head and body. He was known not just for his power, but his incredible speed and his incredible left hook which he'd double and triple on occasion. He had already thrown 170punches in 2 rounds for crying out loud against mercer!

Today? the complete opposite. His offense is his jab and the occasional hook or right hand. The clinch is his best friend, he circles around you while still commanding the ring and has no problem with letting you off the ropes. he uses his reach to his advantage and he doesn't throw near as many punches - he preserves himself.




Now look at wlads stance..he no longer squares up, no longer hunches over.
He stays up right using full advantage of his height, and he stays at the end of his punches. he also likes to keep his left hand out there as a measuring stick now as well as a stiff arm.



Or how about the against the smaller extremely passive Eddie Chambers?



Even when he has these men hurt now, he doesn't rush in looking for the immidiate KO. Often times he lets them often the hook by not moving in at all or by not moving in soon enough. If you don't see the drastic changes I don't know what to tell you. He's transformed, mentally. He fights a safer fight now because he's afraid. His past haunts him. I can define the way he fights now in 1 word; disciplined.

We've mentioned Peters a lot. As i said before, wlads defense was his offense before. Against brewster (who this thread was made on) Wlad wasn't just uncomfortable because of the pressure, he was uncomfortable because he didn't have the center of the ring. He was 1 dimensional in the sense that if you could take the ring from him, he would go into a panic mode. His panic mode was to throw punches and try to knock you out as soon as possible - that back fired.

As seen against mercer, he's always moving foward. He needs to have full control of the ring, he wants the majority of the ring behind him. Wlad today? Not the same fighter. He is ok with giving up the ring. he's alright with backing up and circling.

Watch against Peter, instead of fighting to regain the center of the ring like he would have in the past, he lets peters have it and uses his bike, boxing from the outside a lot and staying on his toes.



These are all very big changes, subtle to the eye, but HUGE in the ring. I box, everyday, I'm working on my own career as we speak. I look at stuff like this and I feel like maybe sometimes I am looking to deep or am trying to convince myself that I see things others don't. This isn't hard to see though. Wlad is a disciplined fighter now - he's matured out of fear. His fear has made him more cautious, his caution has increased his awareness. Although it's made him a more boring fighter, it's made him a more accomplished one as well.

good post, I agree with all this

my question would be, since Wlad is a changed fighter since his last loss, what is the best way in your eyes to beat him now ?

don't you think that the way Brewster and Sanders did it would still work ?

[intoccabile]

good post, I agree with all this

my question would be, since Wlad is a changed fighter since his last loss, what is the best way in your eyes to beat him now ?

don't you think that the way Brewster and Sanders did it would still work ?

His panic mode now is to clinch, and he doesn't know how to clinch properly either, he often times gets hit trying.

I do think that what Sanders did would still be the ideal way to beat any version of wlad, mainly because his chin is so ****ty. i feel like whatever gets you that shot on his chin is what works, and sanders literally went for broke and started wailing away. That strategy beats A LOT of fighters.. no one expects that.

Lamon on the other hand? I feel like Wlad lost that fight instead of lamon winning it. Lamon fought his usual fight and was being beaten pretty good for a bit, then wlad starts gasping for air and his lack of conditioning and heart showed. Brewster put it on him real good that night after that.

Pressure is still wlads weak point, you were 100% right. Out of all the changes and everything I described there is 1 thing that hasn't changed and that's WHEN he punches.

WHEN does he decide to punch?....when he gets set. Out of all the changes his biggest problem is that he still needs to reset himself, relax his shoulders, and line up a shot before throwing. This is why pressure will still continue to cause him trouble as long as it's effective pressure and doesn't allow him to reset.

Because pressure keeps him from getting set, and he can't get off. As you mentioned before.. he isnt a counter puncher, and his defense isn't the best. So you aren't exactly putting yourself at risk by attacking.. you're at risk when youre NOT attacking.

I almost believe that his clinching isn't just because it works defensively.. but because it gives him a chance to reset. He grabs, the ref breaks them up, he gets set. Often times the ref breaks them up and he clinches again immediately if his opponent is ready to engage before he's set again.

[Tiozzo]

His panic mode now is to clinch, and he doesn't know how to clinch properly either, he often times gets hit trying.

I do think that what Sanders did would still be the ideal way to beat any version of wlad, mainly because his chin is so ****ty. i feel like whatever gets you that shot on his chin is what works, and sanders literally went for broke and started wailing away. That strategy beats A LOT of fighters.. no one expects that.

Lamon on the other hand? I feel like Wlad lost that fight instead of lamon winning it. Lamon fought his usual fight and was being beaten pretty good for a bit, then wlad starts gasping for air and his lack of conditioning and heart showed. Brewster put it on him real good that night after that.

Pressure is still wlads weak point, you were 100% right. Out of all the changes and everything I described there is 1 thing that hasn't changed and that's WHEN he punches.

WHEN does he decide to punch?....when he gets set. Out of all the changes his biggest problem is that he still needs to reset himself, relax his shoulders, and line up a shot before throwing. This is why pressure will still continue to cause him trouble as long as it's effective pressure and doesn't allow him to reset.

Because pressure keeps him from getting set, and he can't get off. As you mentioned before.. he isnt a counter puncher, and his defense isn't the best. So you aren't exactly putting yourself at risk by attacking.. you're at risk when youre NOT attacking.

I almost believe that his clinching isn't just because it works defensively.. but because it gives him a chance to reset. He grabs, the ref breaks them up, he gets set. Often times the ref breaks them up and he clinches again immediately if his opponent is ready to engage before he's set again.

I believe we're on the same page then, it has been a constructive exchange

[Mr. Invincible]

Haye gonna KO him so whatever.

Lol, bet with your mind, not racism.