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I know it's the new urine test - that changes nothing I wrote. Neither does random urine testing. Again, if the blood testing is stopped, how can we properly track those levels? And finally, EPO isn't the only kind of blood doping out there. So to bog the debate down to one or two PEDs is very, very short-sighted.
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My initial point was to name PEDs that can only be detected in blood, flushed out of your system comes fight night and have significant advantage within a 24 days window.
EPO was named, which seems to be unlikely due to new testings implemented to catch EPO in urine and the fact that noone have answered the third condition that EPO can have significant advantage within a 24 day window.
I'm not trying to debate down to one or two, I'm just tired of hearing PEDs in general. I want names for these so-called undetectable PEDs.
I frequent these boards, all I read is Steroids, Blood doping, HGH, EPO.
The first two is too generic, last two is unlikely. HGH has to be tested for year-round, not applicable here. EPO can be tested in urine, not applicable here also.Comment
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FYI, if you can't name the PED, then it's not on this list
http://www.wada-ama.org/Documents/Wo...st_2010_EN.pdf
If it's not on that list, then there is no test for it.
If there is no test for it, then it's pointless to stop a mega-fight over it.
Don't get me wrong, I just want the fight between PBF and PAC made.
Anything we can do, as fans, to ease both fighters mind would be great.
Let's separate ambiguity and opinions from facts and stop spreading non-sense.
TBH, Manny should just accept 14 days, if Roach can offer 17 days, then they can live with 3 days shorter.
Plus, no excuses from both fighters from the outcome of the fight (i.e. blood drained, PED abuser, etc.)Comment
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pac agreed to take pregnancy testsComment
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Kill the nonsense.By Alexander Fugate: Testing athletes for illegal PEDs, especially HGH, is again making headlines. This time because of reports that British Rugby player Terry Newton has tested positive for HGH, through a random blood test. He did not dispute the tests result and has received a two-year suspension. Now, Major League Baseball (MLB) has expressed a desire to test minor league players for HGH this year. MLB also wishes to test major league players but need to reach an agreement with the MLB Player’s Association before implementing any new testing.
The National Football League (NFL) also wants to begin blood tests on its players for HGH. The NFL reportedly made a proposal regarding HGH last month and discussions are said to be ongoing. Drug testing for PEDs was also recently in the news as the reason for the collapse of the proposed mega-fight between Floyd Mayweather Jr. and Manny Pacquiao. There seems to be some confusion among boxing fans on testing for PEDs. Following is a look at what the experts have to say on testing, and exploring the effectiveness of different methods of testing, especially in regards to boxing.
There are two illegal PEDs, HGH and EPO, which seem to be at the heart of this discussion. Let’s first start with HGH and the current testing available. In an article by Josh Slagter of The Grand Rapids Press, Travis Tygert head of the United States Anti-Doping Agency (USADA), was recently quoted as saying, “Both urine and blood tests are needed to determine if a fighter is clean.” He continued: “There is no urine-based test for human-growth hormone.” Supporting this believe is an article dated January 3, 2010 at ringtalk.com. In it the World Anti-Doping Agency’s (WADA) Director General David Howman says, “’A number of substances and methods banned by WADA’s list of Prohibited Substances and Methods, including HGH, are currently only detectable through blood testing.”
The confusion on testing for HGH stems from a 2008 report, indicating two professors at George Mason University developed a urine test that was thought to be able to detect HGH. Ceres Nanosciences has licensed this process and the USADA, MLB, and NFL have provided hundreds of thousands of dollars to further this technology. At the head of the research, have been long time anti-doping expert Dr. Don Caitlin and Professor Lance Liotta- who is one of the two that initially developed this testing. Despite the massive funding and studies, Dr. Don Caitlin, told Newsday, on Wednesday February 24, 2010, “Our work has shown we are not going to be able to detect human growth hormone in urine.” This is very clear that there is urine test to detect HGH. This also explains why the MLB and the NFL are pushing for random blood tests on their respective athletes to ensure a level playing field. These two organizations have donated hundreds of thousands of dollars to help develop a urine test. The statements of Dr. Caitlin, along with those of various anti-doping agencies and experts, and the recent positive test of Terry Newman have apparently convinced them that random blood testing is currently the only way to detect HGH.
Now on to EPO. EPO is one type of blood doping. Blood doping is illicitly increasing one’s red blood cell supply. Red blood cells supply oxygen to the body’s muscles. Thus, an increased red blood cell supply reduces fatigue by delivering oxygen to the muscles more efficiently. This is why blood doping is one of the most logical illegal means of gaining an advantage in boxing. Training at high altitudes is a licit means of increasing red blood cells and endurance. This is why Big Bear is a favorite training camp of many great fighters.
While it’s true that a urine analysis alone can detect synthetic EPO, many agencies still use blood tests in addition to the urine tests. The reason for this is simple economics; a blood test that determines if a red blood cell count is unusually high is less than a quarter of the price of a urine test. This is why many anti-doping agencies only perform a urine test for EPO if their blood test indicates su****ious red blood cell levels. Although more expensive a urine test is sufficient to detect synthetic EPO.
However, there are other types of blood doping, some more effective than EPO. Victor Conte, of BALCO infamy, developed and helped create PEDs. He also helped athletes schedule their use of PEDs to avoid detection. He told Doghouseboxing.com, “’blood testing for the Pacquiao-Mayweather fight is…important for detecting possible blood doping or use of EPO…measuring hematocrit levels (percentage of red blood cells to total whole blood volume) is very important. For example, even without a positive urine test for EPO, cyclists are temporarily suspended for two weeks if their hematocrit is greater than 50%. An elevated hematocrit can provide a significant advantage to a fighter by enhancing oxygen uptake and utilization. This would benefit a fighter during training and especially during the later rounds of fights.’”
One other type of blood doping, besides EPO, is ****logous blood transfusion. This is when an athlete receives an injection of red blood cells from someone with the same blood type of themselves. This is accomplished by the blood being drawn from someone with the same blood type of the aspiring athelete. Next the blood is sent through a centrifuge. The centrifuge isolates the red blood cells. Then the red blood cells can be transfused into the athlete. This is detectable but only through blood testing. This blood testing has been effective and numerous athletes have been caught through it.
Synthetic oxygen carriers are yet another form of blood doping. One form of these is hemoglobin-based oxygen carriers (HBOCs). It’s been reported these increase exercise capacity better than EPO. Urine testing cannot be effective in detecting HBOCs, due to the fact that not all HBOCs are excreted by the kidney. However, HBOCs can be detected through blood tests. Due to the fact that it’s believed to be more effective than EPO and can only be detected through blood tests, this has to be very appealing to any boxer looking for an extra advantage.
Also at the heart of the dispute between Mayweather and Pacquiao is the issue of whether the blood tests should be random or on pre-determined dates. The aforementioned Mr. Slagter, of The Grand Rapids Press, reported, “Dr. Gary Wadler, an internal medicine physician and chairman of the World Anti-Doping Agency’s Prohibited List and Methods sub-committee, supported Tygert’s position. Wadler believes, ‘It (the testing for PEDS) would lose all its validity if the athlete could pick and choose when he is going to be tested… and how he’s going to be tested. They’re sophisticated enough now that if someone wanted to, you could play the calendar to your advantage.’” Echoing this sentiment was Victor Conte in his interview at doghouseboxing.com when he said “for these substances to be utilized at their maximum efficiency, they must be properly cycled and be out of your system by the time the competition begins.” He also insists that announced testing is practically worthless and testing needs to be random to be effective. This helps explain, both the need for random testing and why a blood test immediately after the fight by itself is insufficient.
The experts on anti-doping appear to be very clear. The only current method of detecting HGH is through blood tests. Various forms of blood doping would be extremely useful to boxers. Some forms of blood doping can only be detected through blood analysis. Testing on known dates is ineffective, and random testing is needed to help deter and catch athletes using illegal PEDs. A test immediately after a contest is wholly insufficient if there is an absence of effective testing during training. These are the views and sentiments of anti-doping experts.Comment
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The post is not specifically for you, it's for anyone willing to contribute to the subject at hand.
The significance of the post is that to name PEDs that is only detectable in blood, can be flushed out of your system comes fight night and have significant advantage within a 24 days window. Now if you can name these PEDs and they don't appear on the banned substance list from WADA, then it's pointless to worry about those PEDs since there are no test for them.
And if you can't name the PED, then WADA most likely don't test for them.
The rest of the post is just my personal feelings over the subject, and my agenda for debating.Comment
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