Sugar Ray Leonard: Tough To Go Against Mayweather (Video)

[intoccabile]

Pac Man is the #1 rated fighter in the sport, period. He's been killing everyone. He's also a Southpaw which is a huge advanatage in boxing. Shane Mosley is a HOF thats been fighting the best his whole career and fighting guys way bigger than Floyd. If these 2 are tailor made for Floyd and Floyd cant get credit for beating them then what is the point of him even fighting them or boxing anymore, period?

Honestly sit down and look at his opposition though. Don't let his current rank fool you. I'll answer your second question first - Money. Floyd has already said he doesn't give a damn about his legacy. He wants the fights that generate money though, Shane and Pacman are those fights man. He'd rematch oscar or hatton in a heartbeat if he could as well - he already said he wanted to anyhow. Its all about money.

Yes, they are tailer made. Pacman has been killing everyone - who? Cotto? Hatton? Oscar? Diaz? JMM? Marquez? Morales? I can go on - fact is.. pacs biggest wins all have something in common. These are all men (exception of oscar, who we wont even mention LOL) who like to engage, push foward, just really like to fight.

pacman has been chopping down men that fit his style man. That's not taking anythign away from him, but as a real student of the game you have to at least take that into account.

Floyd is superior than everyone on pacs resume now, and doesn't resemble any of pacs former opponents in any way at all. It's a complete 180 than what he is accustomed to. These things pay divident.

[DLT]

Dude, Im a Floyd fan and I agree with you on alot of that stuff but that has nothing to do with him getting credit. There is always a reason why someone wins. That doesnt mean you should get more or less credit. This is boxing and everyone signed up for the same thing. I just dont get how Floyd shouldnt get much credit for those wins.

Also, there are a ton of people who will argue with you about the tailor made stuff. Alot of people think Mosley's style is perfect to beat Floyd because he's bigger, stronger, can match Floyd's speed, has fought bigger guys, has fought better guys, is a HOF, has power, has no fear, and can put pressure on Floyd and force him to fight. Others think Pac has grown alot as a pure boxer, can match or has more speed than Floyd, has more power, and they think Southpaws give Floyd hell. Alot of people think these 2 are the exact opposite of being tailored made for Floyd

[daggum]

guys i'm glad i created a good honest debate. each of us as individuals can decide who we think is the better fighter between leonard, floyd. or whoever. there's no wrong answer as it's all personal preference.
i also forgot to add-

leonard beat 9 top 10 rated welterweights according to the ring ratings besides the guys below.

leonard knocked out a 38-0 wilfred benitez in his prime

leonard knocked out a 72-1 roberto duran in his prime

leonard knocked out a 32-0 thomas hearns in his prime

oh and in between these fights he moved up to 154 and beat the undefeated champion ayub kalule as a tune up no biggie.

all this was done before he turned 26 before he had that eye injury and temporary retirement. he never got a chance to prove himself as much as some greats like mayweather jr. have done. imagine if he had never retired and lost all that time. such a shame.

[DLT]

guys i'm glad i created a good honest debate. each of us as individuals can decide who we think is the better fighter between leonard, floyd. or whoever. there's no wrong answer as it's all personal preference/

i also forgot to add-

leonard beat 9 top 10 rated welterweights according to the ring ratings besides the guys below.

leonard knocked out a 38-0 wilfred benitez in his prime

leonard knocked out a 72-1 roberto duran in his prime

leonard knocked out a 32-0 thomas hearns in his prime

oh and in between these fights he moved up to 154 and beat the undefeated champion ayub kalule as a tune up no biggie.

all this was done before he turned 26 before he had that eye injury and temporary retirement. imagine if he had never retired he could have been one of the all time greats and maybe even up there with floyd mayweather jr.

youre a funny dude. Nevermind that prime Benitez was only 21. Nevermind that Duran came up from a million weight classes lower while SRL was in his 1st class and was a Huge WW and nevermind that Duran beat him the 1st time. Nevermind that Hearns was beating dat ass the whole fight before his weak chin couldnt hold up. Stop hating man. Look, SRL is a legend so I will never argue his greatness but you make the mistake that alot of others do and that is judging a WW SRL against a WW Floyd even though its Floyd's 4th class & SRLs 1st and he was a huge WW.

You look at them at WW and think SRL kills Floyd but thats not fair to judge that way. You should judge them in a P4P sense and you are a fool if you think a SFW Mayweather cant hang with a WW SRL. Give the man his props. A SFW Mayweather more than holds his own against SRL wether you want to admit it or not and Floyd himself was also fighting monsters like an undefeated Chico when he was 23 which no one does nowdays so dont make it sound like Floyd is so inferior. Stop that hate, man

[intoccabile]

Dude, Im a Floyd fan and I agree with you on alot of that stuff but that has nothing to do with him getting credit. There is always a reason why someone wins. That doesnt mean you should get more or less credit. This is boxing and everyone signed up for the same thing. I just dont get how Floyd shouldnt get much credit for those wins.

Also, there are a ton of people who will argue with you about the tailor made stuff. Alot of people think Mosley's style is perfect to beat Floyd because he's bigger, stronger, can match Floyd's speed, has fought bigger guys, has fought better guys, is a HOF, has power, has no fear, and can put pressure on Floyd and force him to fight. Others think Pac has grown alot as a pure boxer, can match or has more speed than Floyd, has more power, and they think Southpaws give Floyd hell. Alot of people think these 2 are the exact opposite of being tailored made for Floyd

I was just pointing out reasons for why people will find reasons to descredit floyd, is all. Because you said he will get his credit 1 day.

I think it's been established before that Shane can appear quite stale on occasion, and, "jittery". As if he's looking for what to do, but can't exactly get himself to do it - lol.

I personally will give floyd all teh credit in the world for both wins, i think they are huge wins and the best he can get at the moment. But people have already began to make the case of shane being old and things of that sort. So, people will always find an avenue to take that leads to floyd being robbed of all credit due.

As for the debate you and daggum are having, those are very sound arguments. The duran argument especially - because it's one that people can make for pacman if he loses to Floyd as well. " pac came up from this weight, that weight, is small ". In fact, it's what Floyd complains about the most.

What hurts the argument though is durans success at the higher weight classes, like pacmans. The fact that he proved he could compete at an elite level even out of his best weight makes that a very solid win IMO - unlike JMM who IMO would not be able to compete at 147, period.

As for the Floyd vs SRR debate. SRR being a huge welter, one who is willing to engage, fast, can **** or box, imo makes that a very bad fight for the smaller more subtle floyd mayweather. But to each their own.

Floyd, p4p though, has proven he is better than many of the greats. SRL didn't have a good career at all when he changed weights.

[King Koopa]

Sugar dont believe in Sugar

[DLT]

I was just pointing out reasons for why people will find reasons to descredit floyd, is all. Because you said he will get his credit 1 day.

I think it's been established before that Shane can appear quite stale on occasion, and, "jittery". As if he's looking for what to do, but can't exactly get himself to do it - lol.

I personally will give floyd all teh credit in the world for both wins, i think they are huge wins and the best he can get at the moment. But people have already began to make the case of shane being old and things of that sort. So, people will always find an avenue to take that leads to floyd being robbed of all credit due.

As for the debate you and daggum are having, those are very sound arguments. The duran argument especially - because it's one that people can make for pacman if he loses to Floyd as well. " pac came up from this weight, that weight, is small ". In fact, it's what Floyd complains about the most.

What hurts the argument though is durans success at the higher weight classes, like pacmans. The fact that he proved he could compete at an elite level even out of his best weight makes that a very solid win IMO - unlike JMM who IMO would not be able to compete at 147, period.

As for the Floyd vs SRR debate. SRR being a huge welter, one who is willing to engage, fast, can **** or box, imo makes that a very bad fight for the smaller more subtle floyd mayweather. But to each their own.

Floyd, p4p though, has proven he is better than many of the greats. SRL didn't have a good career at all when he changed weights.

ok cool. Nah, I know they will still hate on him like they always do. I was just speaking specifically to that 1 poster. H loves to hate on Floyd but he has to man up and change up some if Floyd beats Mosley & Pac but I doubt it. They already ripped him non stop for not fighting Mosley and as soon as he signed, now Mosley is old, shot, too inactive, etc..

[trk]

You are saying Floyd will get credit for Shane/pacman but these fights are practically tailer made for him, real enthusiasts will not give him full credit for these wins.

It seems like defeating the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd ranked P4P fighters in consecutive matches should be a pretty big accomplishment. If Floyd can't get credit for beating elite competition like that, what does he have to do to earn some respect? Does he have to move up to heavyweight and KO both the Klitschkos for people to consider him a great fighter?

[DLT]

It seems like defeating the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd ranked P4P fighters in consecutive matches should be a pretty big accomplishment. If Floyd can't get credit for beating elite competition like that, what does he have to do to earn some respect? Does he have to move up to heavyweight and KO both the Klitschkos for people to consider him a great fighter?

and all of that is after a 2 year retirment and came straight back against the top 3 guys

[intoccabile]

It seems like defeating the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd ranked P4P fighters in consecutive matches should be a pretty big accomplishment. If Floyd can't get credit for beating elite competition like that, what does he have to do to earn some respect? Does he have to move up to heavyweight and KO both the Klitschkos for people to consider him a great fighter?

This is true. But there is a huge arguement for all wins.

The JMM arguement has already gone into play, and it's one I'm actually inclined to agree with now. I do believe he had no business fighting at that weight but the outcome would have been the same regardless.

The Mosley argument will be that it's too late now, it should have happened sooner. And, although it's a ****ty dispute, we can all agree that mosley lost to cotto, looked terrible against Mayorga, and is suddenly being called a god for his win against Margi - which is a serious style disaster from teh get go because mosley clinches a lot, margi, even with plaster, would have never gotten anything off anyhow.Plus.. the dude just.. eats leather. But, that's another point.

Like i was saying, lost to cotto, terrible against mayorga, beats margi (who is being called nothing without cheating, idk why) and hasn't fought in well over a year, plus is old.

You see? there's a lot going on here that taints his victories - and i do think people gave mosley far too much credit for the margi win. perhaps if this fight was taking place a little after mosleys win we could say, cool, he just had a win, but it's been a while since he has been in the ring.

People will dispute these things.

Pacman is the best win floyd can get right now. THe man has came up, beaten weight stipulations or not, he's beaten LIVE opponents who are very fit at the weight and he's proven his worth.