Do You Think Old School Fighters Get Overrated?

[Jim Jeffries]

Rocky Marciano. Beat Joe Louis when Joe Louis was retired and forced into the ring. That win made him an ATG. Everyone and their mothers are ATGs then because take Dawson for instance, he already beat Johnson and Tarver who are HoF fighters. Calzaghe is an ATG because he beat Hopkins and Jones. Nearly everyone is an ATG, I'm sure there are other old timers who are overrated but some are just too flagrant.

A very interesting statistic about Marciano: Out of 49 fights, only 19 opponents fought him coming off a win. Meaning most of his opponents were coming off losses when they fought him. This is a clear sign of trying to fabricate what should be natural. Anyway he made it and some people will consider him an ATG for some reason.

Two of those guys he rematched immediately and 16 of his wins were against guys who were top 10 in the world at the time. Sure he fought some cans early in his career (who doesn't?) but that's understandable considering his rather sparse amateur background.

And his five wins against Moore, Walcott and Charles are all better than his win against the 37 year old Louis (who at least had been very active and coming off an 8 win streak.)

[Shadows]

Why do you not think Jeffries greatness wouldn't carry over? Im not saying he would be as good as he was then, but I think he'd be a top fighter in any era. He had speed, strength, toughness, agility, stamina. I've heard people on here (not you) say fighters today are more athletic. Jeff was 6'3" 220 and ran 100 meters in 11 seconds. He could high jump over 6'. Is that not athletic?

JAB, have you read the book, The Arc of Boxing: The Rise and Decline of the Sweet Science by Mike Silver?

I ask because I've noticed you talk about the books you've read from time to time, but haven't mentioned this one.

Here's a link to it's Amazon page if you haven't. http://www.amazon.com/Arc-Boxing-Dec.../dp/0786438495

[Suckmedry]

I was just messin around bro.

Lol. ok my bad

[studentofthegam]

How many fighters have a claim to being the undisputed champ, cleaning out their division and retiring undefeated, past or present?

He has a larger than life stat book yes. no argument there. But I take Ali, Lewis and Holmes 10 out of 10 times against him with no hesitation. Maybe he was just a product of bad timing bcuz he didnt get to prove me wrong against a better era of fighters but thats the best I can do in his defense.

[JAB5239]

I don't see Robinson beating him though. RJJ in his prime was just a freak of nature. 1-hit kayo power, speed, rediculous reflexes, long reach, footwork. Then add that RJJ was quite a large guy, real thick. I don't think Robinson would last against him.

I watched Robinson. I don't see what other people are seeing. I notice the obvious but when I compare the two, I don't see Robinson beating RJJ. I can see SRR beating alot dudes of fab4 era and beyond but not RJJ.



Well true but I didn't bring up that match up you know? RJJ was JMW-LHW, so I assume thats where the fight would take place, no?

Well, RJJ is the naturally bigger man so I wouldn't argue about you picking him to win. Skill wise SRR is there with any fighter in history and better than most in my opinion.

You mentioned RJJ being thick. Ripped he is. But according to John Scully, if my memory is correct, Roy has a very narrow frame that is deceiving on television. I don't know that as fact as I've never seen Roy live. Just thought I'd mention it.

[jthoang]

Dempsey's style only looks crude because of the crappy film of the day. You have to ask yourself why people who actually saw him fight and have watched todays fighters still think so highly of him? You have to ask yourself if there were multiple camera angles, color footage and the same type of film and film speed back then as there is today, would he really look like that, or would you be able to see more of the nuances and fluidity of todays fight game?

Have you ever seen the video TheGreatA posted of Vitaly in the speed of the older fights? He looked no better than Primo Carnera and that is not an exaggeration or and hate towards Vitaly.

There are certainly fighters today that are better than back than. But as a whole this is not true. Fighters than were they equal of today, they just fought under tougher circumstances.

Dude tries to sound intelligent all the time and usually has some good post but this one was a **** argument.

[JAB5239]

He has a larger than life stat book yes. no argument there. But I take Ali, Lewis and Holmes 10 out of 10 times against him with no hesitation. Maybe he was just a product of bad timing bcuz he didnt get to prove me wrong against a better era of fighters but thats the best I can do in his defense.

My man, you're saying 10 out of 10 no problem, but everybody thought that in every fight. Now Im not trying to make him sound like the greatest fighter ever and that he couldn't lose, that would be flat out ******. But I do think he'd be a top fighter and most likely a titlist in any era up until the cruiser weight limit went to 200lbs and he wouldn't reasonably be able to fight at heavyweight anymore. He's great because he's done what no one else has been able to do. Many will say its because of his era, but Holmes era wasn't much better and todays era is worse.

[The Hate Giver]

Why do you not think Jeffries greatness wouldn't carry over? Im not saying he would be as good as he was then, but I think he'd be a top fighter in any era. He had speed, strength, toughness, agility, stamina. I've heard people on here (not you) say fighters today are more athletic. Jeff was 6'3" 220 and ran 100 meters in 11 seconds. He could high jump over 6'. Is that not athletic?

imo i dont think that oldschool athleticism would translate over in beating a lennox lewis, larry holmes, or a george foreman. i also dont trust those old school articles of his purported athletic capabilities.

You know me & my video footage requirement jab.

[JAB5239]

Dude tries to sound intelligent all the time and usually has some good post but this one was a **** argument.

Feel free to debate against it than.

[check hook]

I don't see Robinson beating him though. RJJ in his prime was just a freak of nature. 1-hit kayo power, speed, rediculous reflexes, long reach, footwork. Then add that RJJ was quite a large guy, real thick. I don't think Robinson would last against him.

I watched Robinson. I don't see what other people are seeing. I notice the obvious but when I compare the two, I don't see Robinson beating RJJ. I can see SRR beating alot dudes of fab4 era and beyond but not RJJ.



Well true but I didn't bring up that match up you know? RJJ was JMW-LHW, so I assume thats where the fight would take place, no?

SRR could never beat RJJ at 60.........Roy is biggfer and stronger at that weight......


at his peak at 60 and 68 i would pick Roy head to head over any fighter that ever fought at 60 and 68 period.