Freddie Roach thinks Manny would beat Whitaker and Duran at 135..

[| THE KING |]

Manny still lunges, takes unnecessary punches, and throws wild punches. Hell, the man threw 1200 punches in his last bout and had a low connect rate against a stationary opponent.

Pac doesn't want anyone to counter, hence the reason he wont fight a counter punching opponent. We've all bore witness to the tole counter punchers take on Pac. He doesn't like it.

Because Clottey always stops throwing punches, regardless of who he's fighting. No one expected different than what we witnessed from that fight.

Cotto and Hatton were damaged goods. Roach's words, not my own.

why do you think he was throwing so much? clottey was just standing there. he had a low connect percentage because he was trying to get clottey to throw back and fight. if manny waited they both would just be standing there staring at each other.. clottey was hiding the whole fight.

He doesnt like to fight counter punchers? he fought marquez twice! one of the best in the game. before the clottey fight, you had people talking about pac never fought a black fighter/ fighter that throws a right down the pipe.. clottey fit the bill and was scared. lol

now why would you or any other boxing FAN blame pac for actually wanting to try and give the fans a show? i have no idea..

[Hannibal Barca]

you serious?

torrecampo lol..

pac wasnt even with roach then. remember manny went straight to the pros (no amateurs).

did you forget pac's wars with the mexican greats in the lower weight classes? after sasakul ledwaba barrera morales marquez.. people were already putting him p4p #1 and atg status.. not necessarily top 25-50 .. but atg nonetheless..

pac in the lower weights was anything BUT ordinary.. everything above 130 is icing on the cake.. and further cementing his legacy..

cut the hate..

Why wouldn't I be? Pac was KO'd by Rustico Torrecampo in 3 rounds on February 9, 1996. And he was KO'd by Medgoen Singsurat, again in 3 rounds, on August 17, 1999.

Who his trainer was is irrelevant. I'm pointing out what May meant when he claimed Pac went from ordinary to extraordinary.

After Ledwaba(who's never been great), Pac fought a draw with Agapito Sánchez. Barrera was a great win, he lost to Morales, and didn't fight him again until after Morales had gotten thrashed by Raheem and was shot, and Pac received a boxing lesson from JMM. Pac WAS NOT being mentioned as an ATG in 04.

[LilGizmo562]

you serious?

torrecampo lol..

pac wasnt even with roach then. remember manny went straight to the pros (no amateurs).

did you forget pac's wars with the mexican greats in the lower weight classes? after sasakul ledwaba barrera morales marquez.. people were already putting him p4p #1 and atg status.. not necessarily top 25-50 .. but atg nonetheless..

pac in the lower weights was anything BUT ordinary.. everything above 130 is icing on the cake.. and further cementing his legacy..

cut the hate..

You're not getting it, he is giving an example on why Floyd said that...

[Hannibal Barca]

why do you think he was throwing so much? clottey was just standing there. he had a low connect percentage because he was trying to get clottey to throw back and fight. if manny waited they both would just be standing there staring at each other.. clottey was hiding the whole fight.

He doesnt like to fight counter punchers? he fought marquez twice! one of the best in the game. before the clottey fight, you had people talking about pac never fought a black fighter/ fighter that throws a right down the pipe.. clottey fit the bill and was scared. lol

now why would you or any other boxing FAN blame pac for actually wanting to try and give the fans a show? i have no idea..

That doesn't conflict with my claims. Fact remains, Pac is still and will continue to be a wild puncher.

And lost to JMM twice. Since then, he hasn't fought another live, slick, counter punching opponent. And it took him 4 years to match up with JMM again. I wonder why?

No, people were claiming Pac wouldn't fight a slick AFRICAN AMERICAN fighter, which he hasn't and wont. He's ducked the two best African American fighters in his division. Mosely, and Mayweather.

[| THE KING |]

You're not getting it, he is giving an example on why Floyd said that...

I am getting it. He's not. Floyd said it and it still doesnt make sense. Floyd is a gifted boxer, but not the smartest guy in the world..

[| THE KING |]

That doesn't conflict with my claims. Fact remains, Pac is still and will continue to be a wild puncher.

And lost to JMM twice. Since then, he hasn't fought another live, slick, counter punching opponent. And it took him 4 years to match up with JMM again. I wonder why?

No, people were claiming Pac wouldn't fight a slick AFRICAN AMERICAN fighter, which he hasn't and wont. He's ducked the two best African American fighters in his division. Mosely, and Mayweather.

facts? lost to jmm twice? fact? lol

1. draw. 2. W for manny.

slick counter puncher? other than may who is there? is manny too good for every other boxer? he's dominating world class fighters and all i hear are excuses.

whos a slick african american? pac fought slick fighters early in his career lol. i guess the only slick fighter to you is floyd? cause mosley sure aint...

agree to disagree man.. have a good one..

[fcastro1]

facts? lost to jmm twice? fact? lol

1. draw. 2. W for manny.

slick counter puncher? other than may who is there? is manny too good for every other boxer? he's dominating world class fighters and all i hear are excuses.

whos a slick african american? pac fought slick fighters early in his career lol. i guess the only slick fighter to you is floyd? cause mosley sure aint...

agree to disagree man.. have a good one..

why argue with these people. evryone from commentaters journalists have noted on his improvements so dont bother entertaining these biased posters.

[Boxin']

He beats Whitaker and Duran even though he got outboxed by JMM? lol

[Hannibal Barca]

I am getting it. He's not. Floyd said it and it still doesnt make sense. Floyd is a gifted boxer, but not the smartest guy in the world..

How am I not getting it? Floyd said that before turning 25, Pac was ordinary, and after 25 he became extraordinary. Before 25, Pac was getting KO'd by journeyman, after 25 he shot to the top of boxing. Ordinary, to extraordinary. What don't you get?

[STREET CLEANER]

footwork.. in and out movement (doesnt lunge in as much).. more combinations.. more patience (doesn't just throw wild punches as much as he used to)

the flaws that we see, pac already knows. he wants fighters to throw back and counter so they open up. pac capitalizes off that and catches them with punches from odd angles. why do you think cotto stopped throwing after the 4th round.. or hatton got knocked out in the 2nd.. or why clottey didnt want to throw at all... cause they hit the canvas or get put to sleep..

Nope, counter right hook over the jab. He is able to throw it and not get out of balance. A very well developed weapon that he didn't have.