M. Moorer Best Light HW Ever

[The Troll]

yea, and after those fights he was not the same, so most of his prime is at 175, which is exactly what I said

His prime was not at 175. Look at his record. He became famous and gained most titles as a cruiserweight. He fought a bunch of bumbs like his first 20 fights like most fighters do, that was at light heavy. Then he fough like 5 serious opponents at Lt heavy and lost to Spinks in 1983. Then he became famous as a cruiserweight. He definitely was not in his prime at Light Heavy. He was in his prime at Cruiser before he fought Holy. Between 1983 and 1987-88. Go to boxrec dude. You seriously need to. You are very confused on this issue. Dwight Quawi as all time great Lt Heavy...give me a break. 4 title defences and bumb fights was all he did at Lt heavy. His whole career was mostly at Cruiser. He was Champion at cruiser. Then when he got really old he went up to heavy probably because he just could make the Cruiser limit anymore. Quawi was a great cruiserweight He gave Holyfield hell.

[The Troll]

Go here and get educated son. Then come back and we can have a serious discusssion


Quawi's Boxrec record.

http://www.boxrec.com/boxer_display.php?boxer_id=000325

[The Troll]

How in any fascination of the imagination does beating Saad Muhammad twice for a WBA title defence and Jerry Martin and Eddie Davis for a title defence make you an all time great Lt Heavyweight. Explain this to me please.

[wmute]

How in any fascination of the imagination does beating Saad Muhammad twice for a WBA title defence and Jerry Martin and Eddie Davis for a title defence make you an all time great Lt Heavyweight. Explain this to me please.

look "son" I know how to use boxrec, I looked at it when you asked if qawi fought at cruiser

1)fighting at 181 is "not making the 175 limit" more than fighting at cruiser, so make hia prime at cruiser 84-86, look at his record after the 1st holy fight and you know that losing to a stepping stone is not the sign of a prime fighter, which is not a big surprise, (actually, the fact that one of them went on to be even better after the fight was more of a suprise)

2) how do 2 defenses of your title make you great cruiser if 4 at 175 don't make you a great at 175?

3) does stopping matt saad muhammad twice makes you an all time great 175? maybe not top 10, but definitely better than DM and MM

anyway see point 2 and have a serious discussion with yourself

[Yogi]

McKay, boxrec gives you very little education when discussing the fighters in question, so I don't see why you think someone is going to get an "education" from a trip over there.

And yes, Braxton/Qawi's prime was at light heavyweight, and anybody who was around back then would tell you the exact same thing. He never once made the p4p top 10 as a CW, but as a LH in 1982, there he is at number ten (the only time he appeared on such lists)

And you criticize Braxton's LH opponents as being "bums"?

Braxton came up like a ball of fire and won the ESPN LH tournament, just before beating the crap out of the quick and talented former WBA champion, Mike Rossman. Rossman was a nice talent, who could box nearly as well as anybody in the division during that era. That's the fight that made Braxton "famous", not his run in the cruiserweight division, cause it was live on national/network television and people got to see his destruction of Rossman for themselves.

James "Superman" Scott was considered one of the toughest and best light heavyweights of the day (ranked #2 in '79, #3 in '80, and #5 in '81 by The Ring). Scott was a strong, tough and aggressive, volume puncher, but when he fought Braxton, he became a bit of a ***** cat, and did his best to not engage the little "Buzzsaw". Scott's one of the best light heavyweights of recent times to never have won a world title, and that's mainly because the champions didn't want to travel to Rahway to face him.

Jerry "The Bull" Martin was another highly ranked light heavyweight contender from that era (#4 in '80 and '81). Martin beat Scott in a previous meeting, but he wasn't thought of quite as highly as "Superman". Still, he was a damn good fighter, and certainly a far cry from the "bum" that you may think he is.

I don't need to really describe Matthew Saad Muhammad (you SHOULD know even a little something about this HOF'er, I'd hope), who Braxton defeated/dominated twice. But he was certainly one of the best light heavyweights that there's been in the last 30 years or so.

And Eddie Davis was also a very talented and pretty slick light heavyweight of that time. Davis also gave Spinks a very difficult test, and certainly Braxton had an easier time with him than did Michael.

Here's what Ring magazine says about Braxton's little run a light heavyweight and those opponents;

"But in a four-year span, he went 18-0 (12), beating ELITE fighters like Mike Rossman, James Scott, Jerry Martin, Eddie Davis, and Matthew Saad Muhammad (twice)."

I was around back then, and I'm certainly going to trust my own opinion of those fighters. But, as a secondary opinion, I'll gladly take The Ring's references of those fighters being "elite" over your assumptions that those fighters were "bums".

Educate yourself beyond a short trip over to boxrec, cause that site tells you very little about what the fighters are really all about.

[oldgringo]

McKay, boxrec gives you very little education when discussing the fighters in question, so I don't see why you think someone is going to get an "education" from a trip over there.

And yes, Braxton/Qawi's prime was at light heavyweight, and anybody who was around back then would tell you the exact same thing. He never once made the p4p top 10 as a CW, but as a LH in 1982, there he is at number ten (the only time he appeared on such lists)

And you criticize Braxton's LH opponents as being "bums"?

Braxton came up like a ball of fire and won the ESPN LH tournament, just before beating the crap out of the quick and talented former WBA champion, Mike Rossman. Rossman was a nice talent, who could box nearly as well as anybody in the division during that era. That's the fight that made Braxton "famous", not his run in the cruiserweight division, cause it was live on national/network television and people got to see his destruction of Rossman for themselves.

James "Superman" Scott was considered one of the toughest and best light heavyweights of the day (ranked #2 in '79, #3 in '80, and #5 in '81 by The Ring). Scott was a strong, tough and aggressive, volume puncher, but when he fought Braxton, he became a bit of a ***** cat, and did his best to not engage the little "Buzzsaw". Scott's one of the best light heavyweights of recent times to never have won a world title, and that's mainly because the champions didn't want to travel to Rahway to face him.

Jerry "The Bull" Martin was another highly ranked light heavyweight contender from that era (#4 in '80 and '81). Martin beat Scott in a previous meeting, but he wasn't thought of quite as highly as "Superman". Still, he was a damn good fighter, and certainly a far cry from the "bum" that you may think he is.

I don't need to really describe Matthew Saad Muhammad (you SHOULD know even a little something about this HOF'er, I'd hope), who Braxton defeated/dominated twice. But he was certainly one of the best light heavyweights that there's been in the last 30 years or so.

And Eddie Davis was also a very talented and pretty slick light heavyweight of that time. Davis also gave Spinks a very difficult test, and certainly Braxton had an easier time with him than did Michael.

Here's what Ring magazine says about Braxton's little run a light heavyweight and those opponents;

"But in a four-year span, he went 18-0 (12), beating ELITE fighters like Mike Rossman, James Scott, Jerry Martin, Eddie Davis, and Matthew Saad Muhammad (twice)."

I was around back then, and I'm certainly going to trust my own opinion of those fighters. But, as a secondary opinion, I'll gladly take The Ring's references of those fighters being "elite" over your assumptions that those fighters were "bums".

Educate yourself beyond a short trip over to boxrec, cause that site tells you very little about what the fighters are really all about.

Game, set, match.

[cple]

Yogi, nice post. I agree wholeheartedly. People need to realize that boxrec provides very little, if any, insight on a fighter. In fact, many of the records they post are incomplete. For example, when a fighter's record reads 0-0-0, that doesn't mean he has never fought before, but that his record is unavailable or unknown.

Anyways, records barely scratch the surface on a fighter's greatness.

[The Troll]

McKay, boxrec gives you very little education when discussing the fighters in question, so I don't see why you think someone is going to get an "education" from a trip over there.

And yes, Braxton/Qawi's prime was at light heavyweight, and anybody who was around back then would tell you the exact same thing. He never once made the p4p top 10 as a CW, but as a LH in 1982, there he is at number ten (the only time he appeared on such lists)

And you criticize Braxton's LH opponents as being "bums"?

Braxton came up like a ball of fire and won the ESPN LH tournament, just before beating the crap out of the quick and talented former WBA champion, Mike Rossman. Rossman was a nice talent, who could box nearly as well as anybody in the division during that era. That's the fight that made Braxton "famous", not his run in the cruiserweight division, cause it was live on national/network television and people got to see his destruction of Rossman for themselves.

James "Superman" Scott was considered one of the toughest and best light heavyweights of the day (ranked #2 in '79, #3 in '80, and #5 in '81 by The Ring). Scott was a strong, tough and aggressive, volume puncher, but when he fought Braxton, he became a bit of a ***** cat, and did his best to not engage the little "Buzzsaw". Scott's one of the best light heavyweights of recent times to never have won a world title, and that's mainly because the champions didn't want to travel to Rahway to face him.

Jerry "The Bull" Martin was another highly ranked light heavyweight contender from that era (#4 in '80 and '81). Martin beat Scott in a previous meeting, but he wasn't thought of quite as highly as "Superman". Still, he was a damn good fighter, and certainly a far cry from the "bum" that you may think he is.

I don't need to really describe Matthew Saad Muhammad (you SHOULD know even a little something about this HOF'er, I'd hope), who Braxton defeated/dominated twice. But he was certainly one of the best light heavyweights that there's been in the last 30 years or so.

And Eddie Davis was also a very talented and pretty slick light heavyweight of that time. Davis also gave Spinks a very difficult test, and certainly Braxton had an easier time with him than did Michael.

Here's what Ring magazine says about Braxton's little run a light heavyweight and those opponents;

"But in a four-year span, he went 18-0 (12), beating ELITE fighters like Mike Rossman, James Scott, Jerry Martin, Eddie Davis, and Matthew Saad Muhammad (twice)."

I was around back then, and I'm certainly going to trust my own opinion of those fighters. But, as a secondary opinion, I'll gladly take The Ring's references of those fighters being "elite" over your assumptions that those fighters were "bums".

Educate yourself beyond a short trip over to boxrec, cause that site tells you very little about what the fighters are really all about.

No way is is he all time top ten Light heavy for beating Muhammad twice and those 2 other Jamokes to defend the WBA belt 4 times in total. I dont care what ring magainze has to say about it.

[The Troll]

Dwight Quawi is not a top 10 all time Lt Heavyweight for making 4 title defences against average competition before loosing the belt to Michael Spinks and moving up to cruiser.

[The Troll]

3) does stopping matt saad muhammad twice makes you an all time great 175? maybe not top 10, but definitely better than DM and MM

anyway see point 2 and have a serious discussion with yourself

Michalczewski is definitely a top 10 all time Light Heavyweight. Quawi is nowhere near the list of all time top Lt Heavies.

Michalczewski made 24 consecutive defences of the WBO title 21 of the defences coming by way of KO. Who has a longer streak than that in title defences for Lt Heavy. Plus Michalczewski was the first man to beat Virgil Hill since Thomas Hearns beat him in 1991 capturing Virgil's IBF and WBA titles. On top of that Michalczewski beat Graciano Rochigiani who was the real WBC champion who won his title by beating a game Michael Nunn. Graciano Rochigiani was told by the WBC that he had to defend the title within 30 days of his bout with Michael Nunn. He was nunable to meat the obligation and the WBC knew he would not be able to. So they stripped him of the belt, Rochigiani sued the WBC for that action and was awarded 25$ million in damages. And gave off to Roy Jones Jr in an eliminator, same as they did with Michalczewski's IBF and WBA titles. Jones never fought any of the champions in the Lt heavyweight division. He never fought Michalczewski, he never fought Rochigiani he never fought Nunn, yet the sanctioning bodies game him all the belts in bull**** eliminators.


All time great Light Heavyweights (top 10_)

Dariusz Michalczewski 24 consecutive title defences 21 by KO
including

TKO 10 Graciano Rochigiani

TKO 4 Montell Griffin ( who beat Jones by DQ...Griffin was ahead on points at the time of the stoppage and won two descisons against James Toney

Drake Thadzi KO (holds a descsion win over James Toney

Derick Harmon KO (holds a win of Glen Johnson)

and other guys of top notch championship caliber.


Virgil Hill 12 title defences of WBA lightheavyweight title before loosing to hearns in 1991. Regained WBA title and made 10 more defences and gained IBF title in the process before loosing to Michalczewski in 1997. Virgil Hill's only losses at Lt Heavyweight came from Thomas Hearns Michalczewski and Jones in that order. Hill fought Jones the fight directly after Hill lost to Michalczewski.


Quawi is not in the same leauge as Michalczewski or Virgil Hill as far as all time Lt heavies are concerned. Michalczewski and Hill are solid top 10 Lt heavyweights for all time. Michalczewski I think probably has the all time record for most consecutive title defences at 24 for and he won 21 of them by KO. (The Light Heavyweight Record for consecutive title defences)

Quawi is pathetic in comparison 4 title defenses to Saad Mummad twice and 2 other guys of lower caliber. Everybody else besides that he fought at Lt heavy were total bumbs.