A fighter can be world class with a losing record and no Ws over a top fighter.

[shadeyfizzle]

Define world class please. That sure as hell cant mean great. Great fighters win CLOSE fights.

Ike, judah and jurez are not GREAT,

I define world class as better than 99% of their division but no wins over top fighters and choke at their defining moments.

Rocky Juarez is definitely capable of beating 99% of the featherweight and jr lightweight divisions but cant win a belt no matter how much they try.

Zab Judah 2 division world champion but choked away all his defining career moments.

[-Reflexes-]

I define world class as better than 99% of their division but no wins over top fighters and choke at their defining moments.

Rocky Juarez is definitely capable of beating 99% of the featherweight and jr lightweight divisions but cant win a belt no matter how much they try.

Zab Judah 2 division world champion but choked away all his defining career moments.

thats fine and dandy. as long as world class doesnt mean great. because they re not.

[Spray_resistant]

Define world class for me. Thats a broad statement.

Having the proven ability to be very competitive with top fighters and having ability to a point where it is not out of the realm of feasibility that a fighter can beat almost anyone in the world in his weightclass.

[-Reflexes-]

Having the proven ability to be very competitive with top fighters and having ability to a point where it is not out of the realm of feasibility that a fighter can beat almost anyone in the world in his weightclass.

Thats fine. But as long as doesnt mean that they are great.

Being famous for being a failure is never a good thing. Key example: Clottey a guy whos best win is a shot Judah. And he lost to Marg, Cotto and will lose to Pac. Being famous for being a failure is never a good thing. "almost" doesnt count.

[shadeyfizzle]

Having the proven ability to be very competitive with top fighters and having ability to a point where it is not out of the realm of feasibility that a fighter can beat almost anyone in the world in his weightclass.

yes...exactly. Rocky Juarez for example definitely has the ability to be competitive and beat anyone and everyone between 126 and 130lbs. But he's failed at every world championship attempt. But since he has proven to be competitive with the very best in the world....he is world class even though he doesnt have any "big" wins.

[ThePunchingBag]

It's possible to be a world class fighter and lose all your fights against top opposition by close decisions that could've gone either way.

As long as they gave the top opposition all they could handle in hard, close fights, I consider them world class fighters.

[-Reflexes-]

World Class is one thing...fine.

But great is a whole different ball game.

[ThePunchingBag]

World Class is one thing...fine.

But great is a whole different ball game.

Great is a perspective.

World Class is more objective IMO.

[-Reflexes-]

Great is a perspective.

World Class is more objective IMO.

Great fighters get the job done. "ALMOST" doesnt count.

[ThePunchingBag]

Great fighters get the job done. "ALMOST" doesnt count.

I don't think undefeated records = great.

Great is a perspective.

You can't assume that three old men with scorecards can judge greatness in a close fight.