Why demand PED testing for the biggest fight in history?

[Havokk]

Would manny requesting Flyod not to use pain killers in his hands for training cos of the magnitude of the fight be acceptable? I mean he has been using it for years, just like Manny has been doing the normal drug testing. Since this is the fight of the century no one should have an advantage.

It sounds silly but Im using your agruement for the other side.

[Maidana vs Rios]

That's four excuses, but the latest one is more reliable OK then, lol. It took him a month after the fight to realize he was weakened by the blood test?
Mayweather is also going to be the one getting into the ring, shouldn't he have the right to request more stringent testing?

Doesn't Pacquiao have the right to come into the ring without worrying if he will be weakened by a procedure that gave him a bad experience in the past? Do you really think the biggest fight of his life is the one where he should be experimenting? "Oh trust us, THIS TIME it won't weaken you. YOU HAVE OUR WORD ON IT." lol.

Why did Mayweather request not even one, not ONE, extra blood tests in his last superfight, the biggest grossing fight in history? What happened?

As I have said before does one random test, with a cut off date equal random testing 3-5 times through out his training camp to you?

No it doesn't. Since when should Pacquiao have to be the first one-man blood bank in boxing history?

Pacquiao agreed to more testing than has ever been done on any boxer in history.

This argument holds no water, its a known fact that the only fighters that get caught are the ones who make mistakes i.e they don't discontinue their ped use in time like Vargas and Toney. Does it matter if this testing has never been done before? Did Holyfield, Mosely and Morrison ever get caught by the current drug system in place? There always has to be a first, like the first boxer who was tested for stimulants in 1981, or the first boxer who was tested for steroids in 2001.

If Mosley used what he used before, he would get caught today by urine tests alone. Do you really believe tests don't get updated? No test is 100% reliable, and that includes blood tests. You have to draw the line somewhere. Pacquiao agreeing to more testing than has ever been done on any boxer in history should be good enough for Mayweather.

When Roach initially agreed to the tests were you against it then? Can I assume that if I search your post history I will come across posts from you condemning it then?

I probably didn't even pay it any attention, to be honest. Only when it became a big sticking point is when I and most people began to take a closer look.

Can I assume that if I search your post history I will come across posts from you advocating blood testing in Mayweather's past fights?

Can I assume that if I search your post history I will come across posts from you advocating blood testing in anybody's past fights?

The green giant posted some quotes from the articles

Can you quote a specific passage from those articles where it says which Abraham fights required blood testing? I can't even find the word "blood" in those articles.

Again I ask, is there PED blood testing in the Abraham-Dirrell fight? I honestly don't know if there is or not. A link would be appreciated.

Has there ever been a ww champion who had to put his belt on the line after agreeing to a catchweight before? Has there ever been a fight were the stipulation was included for a fine of 10m for every pound over the limit before? Can I assume that I will find posts from you condemning these as well?

I was against the catchweight with Cotto from the beginning. Check my posts. I disagreed with it, but I understand why they asked for it [/Chris Rock]. I still think they should have done it at 147, win or lose, but that's just me.

However, there is plenty of precedent for catchweight championship bouts. If you're even a casual boxing fan, much less a hardcore, you should know this.

Why did Pacquiao ask for the 10m per pound overweight penalty? Well, did Floyd come in overweight for his last fight with Marquez? Did he disregard the contract weight limit? If Floyd comes into the fight at 147 like he's supposed to do anyway, then the penalty doesn't mean a damn thing.

Like Chris Rock said, [mfers] always want credit for doin' **** they supposed to be doin' anyway.

Dude, you are blatantly reaching with this. If you are going to use peds it will be during your camp either throughout your camp or during the second half and then you taper off about a week before the fight. I find it interesting here how you haven't posted a link.

Like I said, I have zero PED expertise. Just going off (faulty) memory of things I've read on here and other places. If that's the schedule that PED users follow, I'll have to take your expert opinion on it. lol.

There are so many peds on the market its pointless just focusing on EPO.

See above. OK. I'll take your word for it.

What kind of argument is this, It has never been done before so no one is allowed to suggest it?

I don't understand what you mean here. Pac already agreed to more testing stipulations than have ever been agreed to before in boxing history, more than in any fight, more than in any superfight, more than in any of Floyd's superfights. Think about that. What he agreed to HAS never been done before. He agreed to it. End of. Point blank. Period. What more do you want?

He gives you an inch, you want a foot. He gives you a foot, you want a yard. He gives you a yard, you want a mile. And so on. And so on. And so on...

[General Zod]

Doesn't Pacquiao have the right to come into the ring without worrying if he will be weakened by a procedure that gave him a bad experience in the past? Do you really think the biggest fight of his life is the one where he should be experimenting? "Oh trust us, THIS TIME it won't weaken you. YOU HAVE OUR WORD ON IT." lol.

We are going back and forth here, please tell me why this excuse is more reliable than the others. Off the top of my head: Needle phobias, superstitions and on top of that we have wrong gloves, Morales style, cut above his eye and now being weak from a prior blood test.

Why did Mayweather request not even one, not ONE, extra blood tests in his last superfight, the biggest grossing fight in history? What happened?

Mayweather obviously suspects Pac and not his other opponents.

No it doesn't. Since when should Pacquiao have to be the first one-man blood bank in boxing history?

Pacquiao agreed to more testing than has ever been done on any boxer in history.

Taking 3-5 teaspoons of blood is hardly turning Pac into a blood bank, lol. Every fighter has the right to demand extra tests to make sure their next fight is fair.

If Mosley used what he used before, he would get caught today by urine tests alone. Do you really believe tests don't get updated? No test is 100% reliable, and that includes blood tests. You have to draw the line somewhere. Pacquiao agreeing to more testing than has ever been done on any boxer in history should be good enough for Mayweather.

Mosley wouldn't get caught because he discontinued his use of the clear and the cream a week before the fight, to make sure it wouldn't be in his system come fight night.

I probably didn't even pay it any attention, to be honest. Only when it became a big sticking point is when I and most people began to take a closer look.

Can I assume that if I search your post history I will come across posts from you advocating blood testing in Mayweather's past fights?

Can I assume that if I search your post history I will come across posts from you advocating blood testing in anybody's past fights?

Read my thread:

http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/showthread.php?t=347908

I was against the catchweight with Cotto from the beginning. Check my posts. I disagreed with it, but I understand why they asked for it . I still think they should have done it at 147, win or lose, but that's just me.
However, there is plenty of precedent for catchweight championship bouts. If you're even a casual boxing fan, much less a hardcore, you should know this.

Tell me about these bouts, where the champion was asked to come in as low as 143 and he had to tell the other side that he simply couldn't come in safely that low. He then said if it is at a catchweight (145) then his belt would not be on the line. They agreed and then later started kicking up a fuss demanding him to put his belt on the line.

Why did Pacquiao ask for the 10m per pound overweight penalty? Well, did Floyd come in overweight for his last fight with Marquez? Did he disregard the contract weight limit? If Floyd comes into the fight at 147 like he's supposed to do anyway, then the penalty doesn't mean a damn thing.

lmao, the fight was a ww fight, at the agreed limit of 144 lbs. Floyd couldn't make the weight so he called Marquez and told him he could either cancel the fight or go ahead and accept the penalty Floyd would have to pay. He came in at 146 I believe still within the 147 lb limit. Hardly a case of disregarding the set limit. There was also a weight penalty with Cotto as well I believe

That wasn't the reason why that stipulation was put in the contract anyway

Like I said, I have zero PED expertise. Just going off (faulty) memory of things I've read on here and other places. If that's the schedule that PED users follow, I'll have to take your expert opinion on it. lol

The fact that you have to resort to comments like this shows how weak your case is. Go and read about Mosley doping cycle the weeks before his fight with Oscar or go and read some articles from Victor Conte or Margaret Goodman.

I don't understand what you mean here. Pac already agreed to more testing stipulations than have ever been agreed to before in boxing history, more than in any fight, more than in any superfight, more than in any of Floyd's superfights. Think about that. What he agreed to HAS never been done before. He agreed to it. End of. Point blank. Period. What more do you want?

You keep using this point and as I have told you before someone always has to be first. Whether its the first fighter tested for stimulants in 1981 or the first fighter tested for steroids in 2001. Holyfield was asked for to submit himself to steroid tests (using his urine), testing for steroids at that time didn't even exist in boxing and he agreed. In this day of peds a fighter has the right to ask, Zab Judah asked for extra testing for his proposed fight with Mosley.
Floyd asked for random testing throughout the training camp did, he get that? The answer has to be no. Even in the link you posted I quoted that and you conventionally ignored it.

[baracuda]

Arthur Abraham

abraham used NADA.....the olympics use WADA......national and world are comparable to nothing....

[General Zod]

abraham used NADA.....the olympics use WADA......national and world are comparable to nothing....

Why dont you enlighten me then on the difference between the testing procedures of the two organizations?

[Amazinger]

Here's a few points to consider:
- The financial gains afforded to the winner would have been extremely broad and rewarding.
- This was going to be the biggest fight in the history of the sport of boxing.
- The winner would lay claim to the very best P4P in the world of boxing - In essence he would be on top of the world of boxing.

When that much is on the line for a fight - there is significant motivation to use {Even if you never did before} PED's. Because if the stakes are great for a normal mega-fight, then the stakes for the fight between PBF vs Pacman would have been astronomical. The statement "I am the Very Best\Greatest" would be fitting from the moment of the last bell. This was no normal fight - this was "THE FIGHT" in boxing and everyone knew it. And once the final bell sounds - no one wants to have any su****ions that cheating was involved to get the win.

This is why testing should have been accepted. Exactly because this was no normal mega-fight. Also, because the prize and accolades won from this fight will have been humongous and no one wants to be cheated out of that prize by the fight not being fought on a level playing field.

Now many state that Mayweather had no business requesting Olympic Style Testing.

Why not???

Again this would be an historic fight of the era - One that would be talked about for decades. Why shouldn't extraordinary measures be employed to ensure that there is no foul play involved. Something that people miss in making this claim, is the magnitude of this kind of fight. We're talking Mega-Millions of dollars for all involved - plus the potential millions additional to be made by the winner. This would be the ultimate winner take all scenario in boxing.

In this type of fight {One that many will not see again in their lifetime} nothing is out of bounds, when it comes to guaranteeing an equal and level playing field ..... Nothing.

That's exactly why the 10 Million penalty demanded by Team Pacman, wasn't out of bounds when it was contracted. This fight would be just too big to exclude any demand that would give either fighter an edge.

And this basic point is missed by many, when they try to support their silly arguments against PED testing in this kind of fight. You cannot deploy normal standards to a fight of this magnitude. The stakes were just too great!!!!!!

So, IMHO - Floyd had every right to demand extreme testing, just as much right as Pacman had every right to demand penalties of 10 million per pound.

The overall point: The biggest fight in history demanded extreme measures be taken to ensure a fair fight.

So, the arguments need to STOP - this was no ordinary fight, it was an extraordinary fight and extraordinary measures to ensure fair play were needed and required.

OK!! both parties negotiated to failure.

Ego,ego.

Though I think they don't want to set a "precedent" with regards to Mayweather's demand.

[M.I.C.]

If Manny Pacquiao demanded better drug testing the PEDFarts would all support and would be proud their hero is cleaning up boxing. No Mayweather excuse would even recieve consideration from them.

[Maidana vs Rios]

I see this is going nowhere.

I still haven't seen any links to Abraham's past fights in which blood testing was used. I believed you when you said it, but after asking you for a link several times and being ignored, I'm starting to have doubts.

Catchweight fights, some of which were championship fights:

http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/showthread.php?t=326011

Another link:

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/boxing/news/story?id=3238297

And you keep repeating that Manny needs to be the first, completely ignoring the fact that what Manny agreed to would already make him the first. If I'm wrong, link me to a fight that required three blood tests and unlimited urine tests. Bottom line, the amount of testing Pacquiao agreed to is already UNPRECEDENTED. If you don't agree with this, then prove it wrong. Show me a fight in the past where this much testing was done.

And that link to your thread to prove that you've been a longtime advocate of strict testing in the past is hilarious, considering it's from January of THIS YEAR!

[M.I.C.]

I see this is going nowhere.

I still haven't seen any links to Abraham's past fights in which blood testing was used. I believed you when you said it, but after asking you for a link several times and being ignored, I'm starting to have doubts.

Catchweight fights, some of which were championship fights:

http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/showthread.php?t=326011

Another link:

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/boxing/news/story?id=3238297

And you keep repeating that Manny needs to be the first, completely ignoring the fact that what Manny agreed to would already make him the first. If I'm wrong, link me to a fight that required three blood tests and unlimited urine tests. Bottom line, the amount of testing Pacquiao agreed to is already UNPRECEDENTED. If you don't agree with this, then prove it wrong. Show me a fight in the past where this much testing was done.

And that link to your thread to prove that you've been a longtime advocate of strict testing in the past is hilarious, considering it's from January of THIS YEAR!

Look so what you saying?? when its all said and done what are you trying to say? You think Floyd is Scared of Pac? Is that your final answer? All this evidence about PED's, Drug Testing cycles, history of steroid use, urine vs blood analysis, etc...you have seen and hopefully read all you need to know to draw a conclusion. So after all of this if you still conclude that Floyd is simply scared of Pac and was looking for a way out the fight then thats it, and call it a day. You and Arum can believe that together.

[General Zod]

I see this is going nowhere.
I still haven't seen any links to Abraham's past fights in which blood testing was used. I believed you when you said it, but after asking you for a link several times and being ignored, I'm starting to have doubts.

"In the future, Sauerland wants to squeeze his boxers, the same program, which applies to Olympic athletes."

from the summer abraham now has to go through oylimpic style tests for every fight put into his program."
AS for if it will happen for his fight with Dirrell time will tell.

Catchweight fights, some of which were championship fights:

http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/showthread.php?t=326011

Another link:

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/boxing/news/story?id=3238297

Why do you keep doing this? You know that the catchweight wasnt the point the point was the surroundings circumstances that I spoke about.

And as I said before, were any of these champions asked to come down to a weight that wasnt safe for them like 143?No

Did any of them agree to a catchweight for 145 and then said because im not allowed to come in at 147 my belt will not be on the line? No

Did the camp of his opponent agree, then after the contracts were signed they then demanded he put his belt on the line?No
Again you refuse to address my points which I have made earlier

And you keep repeating that Manny needs to be the first, completely ignoring the fact that what Manny agreed to would already make him the first. If I'm wrong, link me to a fight that required three blood tests and unlimited urine tests. Bottom line, the amount of testing Pacquiao agreed to is already UNPRECEDENTED. If you don't agree with this, then prove it wrong. Show me a fight in the past where this much testing was done.

I have never said Pacquaio needs to be the first, I said why cant he be the first? If its ok to ask opponents to get down to catchweights why is it not ok for his opponents to ask things of him? Isnt Mayweathwer himself prepared to go through the testing himself?

And that link to your thread to prove that you've been a longtime advocate of strict testing in the past is hilarious, considering it's from January of THIS YEAR!

I created this account in Jun 2009, but I only started using it regularly in mid Dec 2009. It was only after the whole pac/may/ roids thing started that I also started paying a closer look to what was going on.
If you read my thread and my subsequent posts in that thread you will know that I was astonished by the fact that drug testing in boxing started so late and that the system in place is so easy to get around. For example I was under the illusion that there was a good system in place which had been implememted for many years. Only to find out that it has just been in place for about 7 years and it only catches the fighters who make mistakes. And if you read it you will see that, its not a matter of when I posted it obviously I knew you were going to see the date.