The Shoulder Roll: Toney or Mayweather?

[Vladimir303]

Floyd does it better. Go see him do a shoulder roll against N'dou for a whole 30secs, while N'dou is throwing flurries.

Also Toney's shoulder roll isn't really a shoulder roll. He more or less moves his head up and down and to the sides. If incoming power shots come he ducks his head down, which leads to opponents hitting him behind the head alot, which is why his speech is slurry.

[tdubb]

Floyd Mayweather, no question. Trust me, I'm unbiased!

get the f*** outta here!

[Andrew Cuff V2]

I use to always say Toney but Floyd has mastered that **** now. I wont be upset if you give it to Toney though. You have to take into account that saying one guy is better at the shoulder roll doesnt mean that he's better at defense. I think Floyd is clearly the best guy at defense. He can do alot of things defensively where as Toney only can do the shoulder roll. What Floyd did to JMM was amazing though. He made JMM look like an amature trying to hit him. Size aside, that **** was impressive as hell when you rewatch it

Very impressive stuff, but hard to use as evidence when JMM was clearly outmatched at such a high weight!

[DLT]

Very impressive stuff, but hard to use as evidence when JMM was clearly outmatched at such a high weight!

Again, I still dont believe that as much as others do. I still say that he could give both Pac & Cotto hell right now if he's still mentally & physicaly healthy. However, even if you dont want to say that, I still think his D was his D in that fight. Meaning, I dont think that part had much to do with size. Ive said that I dont think hardly any "righty" in history can hit a prime Mayweather clean. I think he has mastered that ****. From 130-140 I dont think anyone in history hits him clean if he's prime. You may have some big WW's like SRL & Hearns who could hit him some but I still dont even think there going to hit him super clean alot.

[Andrew Cuff V2]

Again, I still dont believe that as much as others do. I still say that he could give both Pac & Cotto hell right now if he's still mentally & physicaly healthy. However, even if you dont want to say that, I still think his D was his D in that fight. Meaning, I dont think that part had much to do with size. Ive said that I dont think hardly any "righty" in history can hit a prime Mayweather clean. I think he has mastered that ****. From 130-140 I dont think anyone in history hits him clean if he's prime. You may have some big WW's like SRL & Hearns who could hit him some but I still dont even think there going to hit him super clean alot.

1. Marquez wasn't massively impressive at 135, even light punching Diaz rocked him! Above that is a joke really. Warm-up fight fair enough, but nothing more IMO. Although that is a different topic lol!

2. Several fighters would have hit Mayweather clean from 130-140 (Duran, Chavez, Arguello, Pryor are just some that pop straight into my head - all either quick and/or very accurate). His defence is excellent, but I do feel it has been overrated. Every fighter gets hit, no matter how good they are!

[DLT]

1. Marquez wasn't massively impressive at 135, even light punching Diaz rocked him! Above that is a joke really. Warm-up fight fair enough, but nothing more IMO. Although that is a different topic lol!

2. Several fighters would have hit Mayweather clean from 130-140 (Duran, Chavez, Arguello, Pryor are just some that pop straight into my head - all either quick and/or very accurate). His defence is excellent, but I do feel it has been overrated. Every fighter gets hit, no matter how good they are!

No way in hell those cats hit him clean. That doesnt mean they wont win. Some of them can just throw 4 punhces to his 1 but they arent hitting him clean at all. Pryor & Chavez? No way. Those guys swing super wide. Youre not hitting Floyd with that wide ass ****. I just dont see any of them doing it, maybe for the exception of Duran who is a beast all around but those other guys cant.

JMM KO a Diaz & Casamayor who have never came close to being stopped. He got rocked but JMM always gets rocked because his D sucks. There aint no one at WW that is going to stop him from landing like Floyd did. Just like Mosley is the worst matchup in boxing for Margarito. Floyd is also the worst matchup in boxing for JMM. I still thought JMM looked way better than people think but Floyd just didnt give him a real chance to show it. I think his speed was way better than people say, I think he had nice pop as he did catch Floyd with like 2 nice shots, and his counter punching was on point like always, only Floyd wasnt going to commit because of it

[intoccabile]

No way in hell those cats hit him clean. That doesnt mean they wont win. Some of them can just throw 4 punhces to his 1 but they arent hitting him clean at all. Pryor & Chavez? No way. Those guys swing super wide. Youre not hitting Floyd with that wide ass ****. I just dont see any of them doing it, maybe for the exception of Duran who is a beast all around but those other guys cant.

JMM KO a Diaz & Casamayor who have never came close to being stopped. He got rocked but JMM always gets rocked because his D sucks. There aint no one at WW that is going to stop him from landing like Floyd did. Just like Mosley is the worst matchup in boxing for Margarito. Floyd is also the worst matchup in boxing for JMM. I still thought JMM looked way better than people think but Floyd just didnt give him a real chance to show it. I think his speed was way better than people say, I think he had nice pop as he did catch Floyd with like 2 nice shots, and his counter punching was on point like always, only Floyd wasnt going to commit because of it

Sigh.. go watch floyd against hernandez prior to the hand break.
he was getting TAGGGGGED, even had his nose ****** up badly.

You guys are overrating floyds defense because his recent opponents haven't been as game.

[DLT]

Sigh.. go watch floyd against hernandez prior to the hand break.
he was getting TAGGGGGED, even had his nose ****** up badly.

You guys are overrating floyds defense because his recent opponents haven't been as game.

What Hernandez? Either way he didnt get hit much in either fight. The point though is that I said a "prime". he wasnt in his prime at that time. I said that he's mastered it now

[dough401]

Finally some credit for my man big tone!!! I think what he did in the game was of the hook dude is a beast... Wish there was another up and coming like him. This guy feared no one and was down for what ever where ever this was no drama in his game!!!

[markkerr101]

james toney for sure. he counters with it