Joe Calzaghe's career - is it me or is just highly puzzling?

[Smash]

Actually i had a quick look at who was fighting at super middle over the course of joes career and who held the belts

IBF belt was held by charles brewer, ottke and lacy, Joe beat 2 of them
WBC was held by reid, woodhall, beyer, a few other not very well known up to kessler, joe beat 3 of them
WBA was held by Byron mitchel, ottke, mundine, siaca, kessler, joe beat 2 of them

The only person of note really who he didnt face was ottke and if you believe warren they offered ottke a guaranteed 1 million to fight calzaghe but he turned it down.

That doesnt seem too bad to me, not wow, but i dont think he deserves the stick he gets, he fought the major contenders for super middle then came to the states for some retirement money, fair play to the man

[Dirk Diggler UK]

You missed out 2002 when Bernard Hopkins declined a fight with Calzaghe, instead facing Morrade Hakker (why?)

[VipersThunder]

It's so bad, they created a thread where they can let out all their emotions and create a list of people to ban, ignore and red k

Man they are a bunch of babies aren't they.

[Walterson]

You missed out 2002 when Bernard Hopkins declined a fight with Calzaghe, instead facing Morrade Hakker (why?)

Hopkins fought Hakkar before Calzaghe asked for a fight and instead took on William Joppy who had just won a WBA middleweight title off Howard Eastman.

Joppy was also his mandatory.

[daggum]

The germans was as reluctant to travel as Joe was. Plenty of cash to be earned at home and not enough reward considering the risk involved in travelling.

Also it's my belief that neither Joe nor his handlers was confident in Joes's ability. I think they made a mistake by first very late finding out that Joe was a bona-fide superstar. Joe's legacy suffers accordingly. He should have taken some more chances earlier and pursuing the big fights even if it meant he would have had to travel.

Boy would I have loved to see Joe kick Ottke's ass in Germany.

or they knew he was fools gold and waited for some easy marks who were overhyped(lacy and kessler)

[Sir Tom Jones]

and the joe threads are still about.


the lovers and haters are just as bad as each other.

[neils7147933]

Another thing left out of this thread is that in 2002, 2003, 2004 etc., there was not as much of a demand for boxers to fight outside of their country or change weight classes or even to pursue additional alphabet titles. Calzaghe kept his belt and defended it and stayed home and fought....but so did many other "champions" at the time.

Things like Jones going to Australia to fight or Calzaghe coming over to fight Hopkins, or Hatton fighting on US soil or The Super Six etc. wasn't as "in demand". Boxing journalism/TV broadcasts in the United States has become much more "global" in the past four or so years. There were lots of fights that didn't get made because fighters were from different countries, folks weren't as likely to voluntarily relinquish their alphabet titles to go after names, etc.

Jones, Hopkins were fighting strings of nobodies on HBO in showcases and weren't demanded to step up their games either. Calzaghe did the same thing in his own country. As a result, all 3 of their resumes are limited, but it's partly due to the landscape of boxing at the time.

[r.burgundy]

In 2001, Joe Calzaghe was the No.2 SMW behind Sven Ottke. The other fighters in the top 5 were Byron Mitchell, Antwun Echols and Charles Brewer. Instead of fighting any of them and in that very same year he opted to fight two boxers outside of the top ten who were relatively unknown - Mario Veit and Will McIntyre. Why??

In 2002, Joe Calzaghe became the No.1 SMW, followed by Sven Ottke, Antwun Echols, Eric Lucas and Byron Mitchell. Instead of fighting any of his mandatories he opted to fight Charles Brewer (who had previously lost two times to Sven Ottke), Miguel Ángel Jiménez and Tocker Pudwill. Why?

2003, saw Joe Calzaghe remain as the No.1 SMW, his top mandatories were Sven Ottke, Anthony Mundine, Anthony Echols and Danny Green. In June he fought Byron Mitchell (who had just lost to Sven Ottke). Why not any of his mandatories again?? After this fight he called out Bernard Hopkins, who raised his price. Duck? Not at all - who was Calzaghe at that point to Hopkins? During this same year there was a vacant title, Joe Calzaghe chose not to fight for it and it was left for Anthony Mundine and Anthony Echols to fight for, why did he not fight any of them eh???

It was also in 2003, where Calzaghe made this famous comment - "I could probably give Jones a tough fight, probably the best fight he's ever had," said Calzaghe. "But I know my capabilities and unless I got paid the crown ***els I wouldn't want to risk it."

In 2004, Joe Calzaghe remained at the top of SMW list, followed by Mikkel Kessler, Anthony Mundine, Antwun Echols and Danny Green. Instead, again of fighting any of his mandatories, he fought, boxers outside of the top ten - Mger Mkrtchian and Kabary Salem.

2005, Joe stood high at the top of the SMW list, again followed by Mikkel Kessler, newcomer Jeff Lacy, Marcus Beyer and Anthony Mundine. This year again saw him fight none of these guys but Mario Veit and Evans Ashira (which deserves respect because he did it with just one hand). But again why not any of the top guys!

2004 / 2005 - sees the physical declines of living legends Roy Jones Junior / Hopkins

2006, we see Joe Calzaghe take leaps and bounds as he takes on hype machine and No.4 hype machine Jeff Lacy and slaughter him plus win the IBF belt. Mikkel Kessler and Anthony Mundine still lay in rest as number 2 and 3, near the end of the year we see him take on tough outsider Sakio Bika.

2007, he vacates the IBF belt (why) and fights Peter Manfredo (why?) - for the first time in 7 years he then fights his number two Mikkel Kessler and "his best win" to date!

Brandishing the statement legend killer, he goes on to fight Bernard Hopkins and Roy Jones Junior.

He retires undefeated

He is now believed by a "very few" to be an ATG / GOAT.

My question are

- why is Calzaghe viewed as such a fighter?

- was Calzaghe a highly 'protected' fighter?

- why did he not fight any of his mandatories?

- can he be accused of taking on past physical prime fighters to make his "not so great" career look brilliant?

Feel free to comment. Please note that this is not a know on JC, I just want answers.

Walterson.

its interesting when looking at it from that perspective,but lacy and kessler were percieved as bigger threats than any mandatory.those fights were huge and joe performed.he was an underdog against lacy.only mandatory that i see as a great fight woulda been mundine.an sven had a very similar career like joe.his win over hopkins is very underated as hopkins showed us agianst pavlik,he had lots of fight left,and if jones is able to beat danny green,roy would also be a very underated win.joe is definitely an atg.top 20though he's in the bottom 1/2 of it

[Burner]

In 2001, Joe Calzaghe was the No.2 SMW behind Sven Ottke. The other fighters in the top 5 were Byron Mitchell, Antwun Echols and Charles Brewer. Instead of fighting any of them and in that very same year he opted to fight two boxers outside of the top ten who were relatively unknown - Mario Veit and Will McIntyre. Why??

In 2002, Joe Calzaghe became the No.1 SMW, followed by Sven Ottke, Antwun Echols, Eric Lucas and Byron Mitchell. Instead of fighting any of his mandatories he opted to fight Charles Brewer (who had previously lost two times to Sven Ottke), Miguel Ángel Jiménez and Tocker Pudwill. Why?

2003, saw Joe Calzaghe remain as the No.1 SMW, his top mandatories were Sven Ottke, Anthony Mundine, Anthony Echols and Danny Green. In June he fought Byron Mitchell (who had just lost to Sven Ottke). Why not any of his mandatories again?? After this fight he called out Bernard Hopkins, who raised his price. Duck? Not at all - who was Calzaghe at that point to Hopkins? During this same year there was a vacant title, Joe Calzaghe chose not to fight for it and it was left for Anthony Mundine and Anthony Echols to fight for, why did he not fight any of them eh???

It was also in 2003, where Calzaghe made this famous comment - "I could probably give Jones a tough fight, probably the best fight he's ever had," said Calzaghe. "But I know my capabilities and unless I got paid the crown ***els I wouldn't want to risk it."

In 2004, Joe Calzaghe remained at the top of SMW list, followed by Mikkel Kessler, Anthony Mundine, Antwun Echols and Danny Green. Instead, again of fighting any of his mandatories, he fought, boxers outside of the top ten - Mger Mkrtchian and Kabary Salem.

2005, Joe stood high at the top of the SMW list, again followed by Mikkel Kessler, newcomer Jeff Lacy, Marcus Beyer and Anthony Mundine. This year again saw him fight none of these guys but Mario Veit and Evans Ashira (which deserves respect because he did it with just one hand). But again why not any of the top guys!

2004 / 2005 - sees the physical declines of living legends Roy Jones Junior / Hopkins

2006, we see Joe Calzaghe take leaps and bounds as he takes on hype machine and No.4 hype machine Jeff Lacy and slaughter him plus win the IBF belt. Mikkel Kessler and Anthony Mundine still lay in rest as number 2 and 3, near the end of the year we see him take on tough outsider Sakio Bika.

2007, he vacates the IBF belt (why) and fights Peter Manfredo (why?) - for the first time in 7 years he then fights his number two Mikkel Kessler and "his best win" to date!

Brandishing the statement legend killer, he goes on to fight Bernard Hopkins and Roy Jones Junior.

He retires undefeated

He is now believed by a "very few" to be an ATG / GOAT.

My question are

- why is Calzaghe viewed as such a fighter?

- was Calzaghe a highly 'protected' fighter?

- why did he not fight any of his mandatories?

- can he be accused of taking on past physical prime fighters to make his "not so great" career look brilliant?

Feel free to comment. Please note that this is not a know on JC, I just want answers.

Walterson.

Holy ****....One of the best posts ever on this forum.

[Kunty McPhuck]

Frank Warren is too blame for the majority of reasons why Joey didn't fight certain people earlier on in his career. Warren only has his fighters, his star fighters fight people who are either over the hill/down side of their career who wont cause that many problems he thinks. Every now and then he lets his fighters fight a dangerous fighter in their prime or are up and coming. Like Benn/McClellan, Khan/Prescott.

Its funny now to see that Warren only has one cashcow left which is Khan who has a a glass chin and is open to hooks, other than that everyone else is meh. Everyone else has left him over one reason or another, Hatton, Naz, Calzaghe(even if it was after the B-Hop fight). TBh Mick Hennessy is probably the best UK promoter along with Maloney.

I'm like Calzaghe but even I don't count his win against RJJ to his "legacy"